Desire As Medicine Podcast
Catherine & Brenda interview people and talk to each other about desire. They always come back to us being 100% responsible for our desires.
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desireasmedicine@gmail.com
catherine@catherinenavarro.com
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Desire As Medicine Podcast
40 ~ How Nourishment is Self-Love with Clara Belize Wisner
What if your approach to nutrition could transform every aspect of your life? Join us as we sit down with Clara Belize Wisner, a bioenergetic and quantum nutritionist, to uncover the profound connections between self-love, nourishment, and holistic health.
Clara shares her unique insights on how illness often originates from unseen realms and emphasizes the pivotal role mothers play in nourishing the world. We discuss how staying centered and practicing self-love can be a game-changer, even in the most challenging circumstances.
During our conversation, we explore the delicate balance needed for self-care, especially for new mothers. Clara talks about the importance of a "soft front, strong back" approach, which involves prioritizing sleep, meal planning, and embracing flexibility. Through her personal stories and professional expertise, Clara reveals how nourishment extends beyond ideal choices to include self-compassion and acceptance of imperfection. We dive into practical strategies for staying with oneself and responding consciously rather than reacting impulsively.
In a fascinating discussion on mitochondrial inheritance, Clara explains how our maternal line impacts our everyday health, highlighting the role of energy in everything from metabolism to boundary-setting. She also discusses how ancestral diets and lifestyles continue to influence us today.
Wrapping up, Clara shares her vision for integrating her family into her work, blending purpose with personal life seamlessly. This episode is a treasure trove of insights on how to nourish both your body and soul.
Connect with Clara:
Instagram: @clarabelizewisner
Subscribe to her Substack newsletter: Matriarch by Clara Belize Wisner
Join her HomeBody monthly class
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Email:
desireasmedicine@gmail.com
goddessbrenda24@gmail.com
catherine@catherinenavarro.com
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@desireasmedicinepodcast
@Brenda_Fredericks
@CoachCatherineN
Welcome to. Desire is Medicine. We are two very different women living a life led by desire, inviting you into our world. I'm Brenda.
Speaker 3:I'm a devoted practitioner to being my fully expressed true self in my daily life. Motherhood relationships and my business Desire has taken me on quite a ride and every day I practice listening to and following the voice within.
Speaker 2:I'm a middle school teacher, turned coach and guide of the feminine and I'm Catherine, devoted to living my life as the truest and, hopefully the highest version of me. I don't have children, I've never been married. I've spent equal parts of my life in corporate as in some down and low shady spaces. I was the epitome of tired and wired and my path led me to explore desire. I'm a coach, guide, energy worker and a forever student, even after decades of inner work.
Speaker 3:We are humble beginners on the mat, still exploring, always curious. We believe that listening to and following the nudge of desire is a deep spiritual practice that helps us grow.
Speaker 2:On the Desires Medicine podcast. We talk to each other, we interview people we know and love about the practice of desire, bringing in a very important piece that is often overlooked being responsible for our desire, piece.
Speaker 1:That is often overlooked being responsible for our desire. Hello everyone, so happy to be joined by our lovely guest today, as well as Brenda. Hey Brenda, hey, catherine. So excited for today. I'm really excited for today. We've been doing this self-love series and it's sort of had this really gorgeous ebb and flow, almost like its own little heartbeat, that we've been following and one of the places that we've been looking at is like, hmm, what does it mean to love yourself from all different directions? And one of the directions that we love ourselves, that we can really show off, if I may say so myself, is through nourishment. So our guest today is Clara, and I'm going to rattle off her bio. Hopefully I did a really good job. I want to say it's audible, worthy, pull it surprise voiceover here.
Speaker 1:Clara Belize Wisner is a bioenergetic and quantum nutritionist and teacher. She blends her knowledge and training around nutrition, cellular biology and feminine physiology with her deep practice of spiritual, feminine, energetic principles. Clara is a teacher and embodiment of the deep feminine nourishment. She is in service to mother, and the mother is where all nourishment is originally derived. She believes that illness, disease and dis-ease originates in the unseen realms and only comes into the physical body as the last resort. Therefore, healing must occur on multiple levels and in multiple dimensions. Clara knows that when women and mothers are well fed and nourished, the world is as well. She believes our relationship with food and nature directly reflects how we perceive and experience the world. Motherhood is her greatest practice teacher and her highest honor Her expertise in the areas of fertility, gut health, female hormonal health, physiology, as well as somatic parts work. She uses a bioenergetic, pro-metabolic framework blended with spiritual, feminine energetic principles, along with her embodied experience of motherhood, her own personal health journey, as well as well as an over a decade of working with clients one-on-one and in group containers. Clara lives in Montana at her home, aka the sanctuary on the Jefferson River, with her two daughters, alma and Maya, and her husband John.
Speaker 1:I would like to add that Clara is just a beautiful human. Yes, yes, we're all beautiful humans. I'm not trying to say that nobody, anybody else, is not a beautiful human, but she's a beautiful human because I know her and I'm the one that's judging right now. So for me, she's a beautiful human and I've worked Clara personally. I want to say that she's someone who's a stickler for detail, and I don't mean stickler in a negative connotation, I mean, she's just looking at all different parts of us to see the bigger picture of who you are as a human.
Speaker 1:She also walks. Her walk walks her talk, I guess, is a better way of saying it, or potentially the right way of saying it. She's always doing a concoction or a movement or a study of some kind to enhance the journey that she's on. That, clearly she has self-proclaimed, is what she serves. She's a woman who I have witnessed I don't know if she sees herself this way well, she's someone who really has permission for things that are sort of messy Like. She has this unabashed way of walking through the world with a form of surrender, while at the same time being so well structured. It's an interesting thing to observe as you witness it, because usually we think of people who have a lot of structure, like, oh, they're so tight here, and somebody who's surrendered like, oh, their life is falling through the cracks. But Clara has a gorgeous, gorgeous blend and, above all of these things, she's just so willing to love on someone else and that's something that can be really felt. Welcome, Clara, I'm so happy to have you.
Speaker 4:Oh, my goodness, thank you. That was. That was just, I mean, so beautiful and touching and I just like I feel it. I love you. I love you, catherine. I love you. I love you, Catherine. Thank you, I love you, brenda.
Speaker 1:I'm so happy to be here well then, let's dive in what, clara, do you feel self-love means? What does it mean to you?
Speaker 4:Oh, um, it means being with yourself under all conditions, so not not abandoning yourself, uh, for other people, for outcomes, like to get something. It means there's just there's an element of like staying with yourself. I think, um, in the sense of like staying in your center, um, through like my personal journey of self-love, it's like the more I'm able to come back to center, the more I'm able to love myself really well in ways that like fill myself up. Yeah, I don't. I feel like I could go on and on, but that's like you know, being able to be, with yourself under all conditions.
Speaker 1:Yes, Thank you. And what do you think nourishment is Like? What would you, how would you, if you were the dictionary? What is nourishment?
Speaker 4:Yeah, oh man, these are like such simple questions and also like so important. I think nourishment is to say it in the terms of like feminine, masculine, like to me, nourishment feels like receiving from the mother, so like receiving life force, you could say, like it requires, like a giving and a taking, in a sense Like a giving and a receiving. So there's like the source of nourishment and then there's like the receiving of nourishment, and it feels like the feminine to the feminine, almost like there's an uh, there's a way that the nourish nourishment is. It comes from what I would call the mother, the feminine, this uh, you know, earth is a great embodiment of this principle of like nourishment. So, you know, when we think about traditionally like, what's nourishment? It's like food, like you know. So food comes from the earth, it comes from other things and we receive it and it's taken into our bodies and it gives us life force, right, it gives us like energy and vitamins and minerals and um and so on, a most.
Speaker 4:On the most basic level, I think nourishment is um, the act of reception, like of receiving something in uh, which you know, it's interesting, I've been working with this phrase for myself receive, don't carry. Just very pertinently. Very, very recently this phrase has come into my field and it feels like a teacher, you know, like receive, don't carry. Well, what's the difference between receiving and carrying? Then, right, like, what really is the difference? If the directive from the universe right now for me is to receive, don't carry, and it's like reception and nourishment are so intertwined because there's like a we we have to open to receive right, we can't like, like you could. It's like water on concrete, like you could be having stuff given to you. You could even be eating food, right, but if you're not in a sense like, if your cells aren't open to receive it, if you're not able, able to absorb it, like, the nourishment doesn't get in right yeah, so there is just this.
Speaker 4:You want to jump some timelines?
Speaker 1:I'm going to slow you down. You can't go all the way over there.
Speaker 4:I want to talk about what's being absorbed in the cells when I mean when you, when you, when you ask what nourishment is, I mean that's like okay, that's like I'm like okay. Let me tell you num num num.
Speaker 1:Num num I how about?
Speaker 4:you know how much I have thought about this question? Let me tell you oh, yes, yes, yes.
Speaker 1:I mean, I'm sure there's such a huge runway. Brenda and I were just talking earlier and we were like how do we like nourishment, one of the things that came up for her when she was sitting. I'm like speaking for Brenda right now I'm assuming she knows exactly what I'm going to say. But we'll see, slowing things down and simplifying things, like there's a part where it's so hard to receive when we don't slow down and bring things simply. So the next thing I wanted to ask you was around. So where is the marriage? I know you said they're like intertwined nourishment and reception, but the crossroads are the marriage between self-love and nourishment. And now I'm going to have to add, because we have quantum left between self-love, nourishment and reception what is that gorgeous cocktail? What is the meaning of that gorgeous cocktail that, yeah, I guess it would be? What is the embodied definition, almost, of self-love, nourishment or reception?
Speaker 4:I mean, you know, just sum up like my entire life's work, like totally, hmm, so if self-love is staying with yourself under all conditions and nourishment is like an opening to the mother, right, to sum it up again, like an opening to the source of life, nourishment, and if it requires, I'm just going to say reception requires nourishment.
Speaker 4:And if it requires, I'm just gonna say reception requires nourish, like requires nourishment or nourishment requires reception.
Speaker 4:So then, like self-love and nourishment and reception, they all revolve around like this centered staying with ourselves and being open at the same time, right, like, and being open to receive at the same time. And there's what's coming up like, just if I'm just feeling what's in my body, like, like, as I try to translate it, there is an element of like soft front, strong back, like you kind of have to have an erectness to receive on some level, right, like you have to be like to open, I guess, like you have to have like this straight back, strong backbone, to be willing to open. So we talk about like softness and you know, and how there's so much strength and softness and this. This comes up when speaking of how these three things are like come together, right, being with yourself in all situations, conditions straight, centered, rooted, strong back and then like being open to receive nourishment, the source of life. Right, you have to be soft, the soft front wow, thank you for that, clara.
Speaker 3:It's absolutely beautiful soft front, strong back, centered and open, just really feeling that right now. It's. It's absolutely gorgeous. What does that look like on a daily basis? Because I know so many women and so many mothers are walking around tired and wired and this is such a beautiful pole that you hold and I'm sure you work on this all the time Like this. You said this is your life's work. But what does this look like on a daily basis for women who are struggling with this? How, what do they do? How do they move towards this?
Speaker 4:Yeah, I think Catherine said something in the introduction around like how I hold this, like this messiness along with, like this structure and like real, like kind of containment, like kind of containment, and I think that that's like what she's seeing is. Is this that I'm trying to describe here, this like strong back, soft front, because it's like you, you have to be so deeply in acceptance of yourself to stay with yourself in all conditions, right, if self-love is staying with yourself under all conditions. Like you don't get to leave yourself when you're a mess. You don't get to leave yourself when you've fucked up. You don't get to leave yourself when you've yelled at your kids and you know you're, you're, overwhelmed. Or you don't get to leave yourself when your body ain't doing what you want it to do, right, like you don't get to be like I'm just gonna hang out over here and try to change myself, right. Or like I'm gonna not stay where I am, I'm gonna move over here and I'm gonna yell at myself about how I should be different, right, and so, yeah, I mean that you know the, because the phase of life that I'm in right now is like early motherhood.
Speaker 4:I have a three-year-old and a four-year-old. Um, like I like did motherhood squared because I had two so close together. It feels like like it was like here, become a mother in that whole transition and then do it again immediately, um, and so I feel like I've been in this, yeah, like like the, the down, the, the becoming that is motherhood for like four years now and I feel like, honestly, I'm just starting to kind of like come out and like peek my head out and be like oh, yeah, like, um, just like my capacity kind of is is expanding a little bit from all of my bandwidth being used with my kids, which is totally fine and appropriate. So, yeah, like this tired and wired I mean, in my postpartum with my second so I had these two babies close together and then postpartum with my second so I had these two babies close together and then, postpartum with my second, I developed really severe anxiety or really severe, uh, insomnia and you know all the things. If you wanted to diagnose me, I would have definitely been like postpartum depression, postpartum anxiety, all this you know these like psychosis, all of that like definitely would be be, but I have this spiritual framework right, so luckily I had that to kind of like uh, fall back on right, like an element of trust and holding and so um. So I know my point with that is just like I know. I know what it's like to be like tired and wired. I know what it's like to feel just like the deepest exhaustion in your bone marrow.
Speaker 4:My practice, like my personal practice of staying with myself even in those spots, is intense, is intense, like it's an intense experience to stay with yourself when you are so unendingly exhausted and try, you know, and have so many things on your plate and so many things to hold. So, yeah, like, how do we do that? How do we? How did I do that? And sometimes I'm like I don't know, I don't know, I don't know and I didn't all the time. You know. That's the other thing is like I didn't. I there's plenty of times when I was not with myself Um, but it's the, it's the practice of the basics, like that's really what it comes down to and that's where I see a lot of clients popping out of this.
Speaker 4:It's like you have to stay with the basics. You have to like prioritize sleep. You have to prioritize the time to make food, the time to maybe meal plan, the time to go grocery shopping and then when you can't do that, you have to be gentle with yourself there too. When you have to get pizza and just get the takeout, you got to allow that to be okay too. So, and there's something that happens when we have this like soft, because that's nourishing too, right, like we want to put nourishment as like well, it's only nourishing if it's, you know, the ancestral diet like this is my follower like the ancestral diet and it's all organic and it's all local, and you know it's all like. This is my follower like the ancestral diet and it's all organic and it's all local. And you know, it's all like this high nutrient, dense food and that's nourishment.
Speaker 4:And you know, I really brought that definition of nourishment out really wide and it's like no, it's got to be more nuanced than that, it's got to be more subtle than that, it's got to be more about the moment than that. So it's true Some moments may be very true that the organic, ancestral meal, cooking that, having that ready, having the ingredients available, that that's the most nourishing thing. But, man, when you are in it with two young kids and insomnia and like you just can't like, then the pizza might be the most nourishing thing, right. So it's like being willing to be with yourself under all conditions and make decisions from, uh, that center of like where am I actually at right now? Like what actually can I handle? And it's not.
Speaker 4:This isn't a free card to just like you know, never cook for your family or anything Like that's definitely not what I'm saying. Like I I'm a firm believer in like 80, 20 rules with that, but and I say this a lot but if there's any punishment in it, it's not it from my perspective, like from the, the framework that I'm teaching nourishment from. And that's kind of a mindfuck for people who have been like really into nutrition and the health and wellness industry that because that's based on punishment, it's all based on punishment for the most part, and restriction and rigidity and and mine is a little bit harder to translate but it's also like you can feel it. Like you can feel when there's punishment in it. Like you can feel when there's punishment in it. And if you can feel that there's punishment in it, it's not it right, that's not the nourishing thing.
Speaker 3:Thank you for that. If there's any punishment in it, that's not. It so gorgeous. And thank you for sharing what the basics are, because those are some pretty challenging basics for a lot of people to get to it. Really, if we're doing real talk here like prioritizing sleep, prioritizing meal planning, food shopping and cooking, those are really challenging things in a world where a lot of women are working outside the home even, or even staying at home and working. I think that mothers really struggle with that and women in general. And the thing I wanted to ask you about, because I think that we are so used to being isolated and we just think of ourselves as our being and maybe that's part of being in survival mode as individuals, as women. But you talk a lot about lineage and nourishment and I think it's a really important piece that I've been learning more about, because we're not isolated. We're so deeply interconnected in our lineage and I was wondering if you could speak a little bit about that, about how that affects our general daily wellbeing, our nutrition, our bodies.
Speaker 4:So, yeah, the way that I work with bodies is that they have a story and that, you know, we, as our conscious minds might think, we kind of understand what's happened to us in our life. We're like, and that's just not the case A lot of times if you haven't kind of intentionally gone through a process where you look at everything that's happened to your physical body from birth till present and even going back into the maternal lineage, and I talk about a lot about how you know the physical body, the matter of our body is the maternal lineage. So you know matter, ma, like it's this, this mother, this through mother line, right, and how, how do we conceive of that on like a everyday level and like a lay person level, right, right, it's like, well, we in our mitochondrial inheritance is from our mother line, and if you don't know what a mitochondria is, you know you probably learned about it in like fifth grade chemistry or something biology. Um, and it's like they're, they're little things in the cell and each cell could have multiple and different tissues, have different amounts of mitochondria. Um, little little organelles I guess they're called. They look like this in, like ovals, like pill shape in your biology book, with lots of little folds in them, but these are like the part of our cell that produces energy, right?
Speaker 4:So we talk about metabolism a lot and you know, some people think of metabolism as just like, oh, you're fast, you have a fast metabolism, or slow metabolism. You're kind of like born with it and fast is good and slow is bad. And it's definitely not that simple. When I talk about metabolism, it's basically like how much energy can you produce? You know how, how, how efficiently are you producing energy so that your, everything requires energy in your body? Right, like, um, but I said, you know, in my bio, in my bio you said, like I'm a bio, uh, energetic nutritionist. So it's different than a, than the average nutritionist, because I'm looking at like, how are the cells producing energy? And I'm less looking at like the systems of the body. Like, of course, I'm looking at your liver and your thyroid health and your adrenal health and your hormones. Those are all important.
Speaker 4:But if you really go down to like the root, it's like energy is everything right. Like energy, um, if you don't have energy, you feel like shit, like that's. You don't have energy to hold boundaries, you don't have energy to change your diet, like you don't have anything if you don't have energy, right, and so we have to like, really kind of get more simple sometimes in the way we're looking at our health and say like, well, if I had more energy then, yeah, maybe I could make these shifts that would like, maybe then I could do the meal planning and even sleep, like I learned this when I was going through all this insomnia sleep requires energy. Actually, to sleep well, you have to have energy. So a lot of times, people who are super burnt out, they don't sleep well, because when we go into these deep, deep sleep phases, like we're rebuilding so much and it requires the cellular energy, so those mitochondrial and the way they function is passed down through the maternal line, and that is very much proven by science as well.
Speaker 4:Um, but I, you know, something I say is that, like, I serve the feminine frequency that lives within the feminine physiology. So, you know, when you think about energy, when you ask yourself, like what is energy? I mean i's God. Like it's the animating force behind everything, right, it's chi, it's prana. Like it depends on the framework, the modality with which you, you know, relate to it. But like, ultimately, that's what it is, you know, I believe that's what it is. You know, I believe and you know we all have insane amounts of energetic potential.
Speaker 4:I was just teaching this in the class I taught yesterday. Each human cell gives off 0.0 volts of electricity, which doesn't sound like that crazy, but we have 3 trillion cells in our body and that basically works out to like some crazy, huge trillion billion number of volts of energy. And if you look at each like how much that would be in bolts of lightning, we have 2100 bolts of lightning energetic potential in our body at any one time. We are like, we are light, like we are energy, and energy equals mc squared Right. So energy equals mass Times the speed of light. We have mass and we have volts of electric potential In our body At any one time. So that energetic potential, right In a sense, travels through the maternal lineage and our mitochondrial, generational inheritance. Matters to our, to our everyday health and it also is something that you can totally change.
Speaker 4:So I don't want to also bring in like this idea that genetics are like you know, your like, somehow your death sentence and like because your mother had a lot of trauma and was malnourished, that therefore you, your body, will never recover. That's just, that's not true, um, but it is good to look at right. So a lot of times what I see in my clients is grandmother lived on a farm, ate an ancestral diet. Her, probably her mitochondrial inheritance was pretty good, like she passed that down and we're kind of like the second generation now of women who haven't eaten that close to the earth, you could say, or lived that close to the earth, Um, and I think that that's why we're seeing part of why we're seeing such a huge, uh you know, influx of like autoimmune diseases and and um, sensitivities and all of these like we are not healthy as a collective, like, let's be honest, like like the idea that we're somehow doing better than those that came before us on a health I mean that's, that's very obviously not true when you look at the facts of, like our physical matter.
Speaker 4:So you know, something in the environment is possibly to blame, I would definitely argue. And also this mitochondrial inheritance, right, it matters. It matters that like what our mothers ate, what our grandmothers ate, and back and back and back, because that affects the health of our mitochondria.
Speaker 3:Thank you, I feel like I'm back in biology in 10th grade. That was so great. Thank you so much for all of that. It feels so deeply true. So much for all of that. It feels so deeply true. And what are some small steps that women can take? Who are listening to this and saying, oh my God, this is me, because it's so vast and you said we are not healthy as a collective? This is really an epidemic that we're facing in our world, plus with all the pressure and the stress which it all feeds each other, of course. What are some basic steps that women can do? And also, inside of there is, like I know you have such deep practices, your own morning practice and what, what, what suggestions would you make for women who are listening and saying this is me.
Speaker 4:You know, I'm such a big believer that it doesn't have to be complicated and it doesn't have to be expensive, like I really believe that if a practice or a supplement or a change in lifestyle is going to be healing, that it's going to heal multiple things on multiple levels. And I talk about this a lot, that like there should be a cascade. Like if you change one thing, it takes energy to change things. Like I'm not, I'm not in denial of that, it is it, it, it's. It takes energy, right, and if we are low on energy, that's asking a lot of us. And so if we are going to make like one change, small changes and I am like forever and always a fan of baby steps in this work, because it's the only thing that actually like changes in the long term I am so against like 30 day, blah, blah, blah, 30 day, you know, like diets and and like making all of these changes, because it's just like it's just bound to explode later. So the baby steps are where it's at, the one change that you can make and really sustain into a long term. You know habit and that you know you spoke of, like my practices and it's like, yeah, because I've been doing this stuff for like over 10 years, like almost 15 years at this point. So I have a lot of like practices that might sound, seem kind of like weird and different, but it's like I've added them in so slowly that they don't just it's just my life, you know, um.
Speaker 4:And so, with all that being said, I think the biggest things that can help most people is reconnecting to the earth however that looks for you, but resetting our circadian biology. To say this in a scientific way, it's like we're resetting our circadian biology. We're resetting our wake and sleep hormones, cortisol, melatonin. We're resetting a lot of our like digestive hormones when we like wake up with the sunrise and look at the sun and get the sun in our eyeballs. Like we are human beings, we are animals and I think another huge reason why we why collectively we aren't healthy is because we are so disconnected from our nature. Like we talk about earth, but like we are mother earth, like we are nature, so we like we can't be so disconnected from her and expect to be healthy like cutting, cutting us off from that, so like that source of life force, that nourishment that we talked about at the beginning, and so anything that connects you to her cycles, the earth cycles, is going to be insanely, on so many levels healing.
Speaker 4:So waking up with the sunrise, getting the sunrise and that literally does mean like 10% horizon, so like within 10-15 minutes of sunrise, getting that light in your eyes, it hits your eyes and it hits this thing called the super chiasmatic nucleus, which is, like, again, biology here, but it's a real thing apparatus in our eyes that sets every single mitochondria in our body time clock. And so you can imagine, when we're staring at screens all day which are similar to noonday sun in brightness and light spectrum, like our bodies are getting very confused about what time it is and everything in our body does operate kind of on a clock, on cycles, just like nature. So there's 24 hour cycles and there's, you know, moon cycles and all these things and different longer cycles, and so if we can kind of get that sunrise light into our eyes in the morning again totally free not easy necessarily, especially if you're low on energy and you don't want to wake up and it's the summer, like it is right now but getting that in your eyes is going to have this cascade of effects that are positive on so many different levels. You know, earthing like just getting bare feet, bare skin, bare hands on trees on the earth, like you know, be that person who's like the tree hugger but like, honestly, that from an energetic, from a bioenergetic standpoint, the earth is a, is just an infinite source of electrons. So like it, just like, and that's kind of how energy moves through our body, is through our fascia and this, this water, this gel, like water substance that creates, you know, the shape of our body, which is our fascia, it you need an electron chain, an electron transport chain, to move energy through. So if we have 2100 bolts of lightning, of energetic potential in any one body and we feel dead and tired, a huge reason is because we don't have enough electrons in our body, in our water of our body. So grounding, earthing is going to be really helpful for that.
Speaker 4:And you know, I just want to say consistent, like two minutes at sunrise, opening your window, like, and letting sunrise light in every day is better than 30 minutes twice a month. So the consistency, also for this kind of biological resetting, is important. So you know you do what you can and you know if it is like super early, like right now, for me the sunrise is like 530am. I haven't been out there every day at sunrise but I, the minute I get up, I go outside. So it's like you know, do what you can Like if, if it's super early for you right now in the summer, like pick a time maybe it's six, 30, and just be consistent with the time so that your eyes are getting that same, that same uh indication, and then you know throughout the day, if you work on screens, go outside, get light breaks, um, you know, foodwise, the best thing I can say is just balance your blood sugar, like eat consistently, eat protein, carbs and fat consistently throughout the day, ideally like a big breakfast, right?
Speaker 4:So I could maybe like boil it down to like three things. Boil it down to like three things. I would say morning, sunlight, ideally sunrise, for five minutes every morning, consistently eating breakfast, a big breakfast that's got protein within an hour of waking. And, um, you know, earthing, earthing and light breaks and earth breaks, um, and you know I could, I could say so many, but I feel like those are like simple things that make huge changes on so many different levels.
Speaker 4:You know, I talk about the spiritual aspect of greeting the sun every morning, Like I really believe our ancestors did that and I know that as someone who has had that practice for over, you know, a few years now. It's I feel it like I feel it in my body that like this is spiritual to like say, you know, there's like a lot of myths, legends, that, like you know, the sun was like a new sun every day, so like you're greeting this being that's going to be alive until sunset. I have like a children's book called uh, this is the way to start the day, by Bird Baylor, and anyway, she talks about all of these you know, all over the world, these practices of people waking up with the sun and singing to the sun and greeting the sun and, and I just think that you know again, on a physical level, this is very true, and then on this spiritual level, it's also just a practice of devotion to nature and our nature and our ancestors I feel like I just took a walk in nature listening to you.
Speaker 3:Great, yeah, I really do. Just just hearing your transmission of earthing and returning to the earth and the sunrise and the big breakfast I could see it on the plate and I'm thinking about all the times that I hug trees and I'm thinking about in my own yoga practice, the sun salutations, like the history of sun salutations and honoring the sun in that way is exactly what you're saying and how good it all feels. I think we would all agree that when we spend more time in nature, we feel good.
Speaker 4:Everyone, anyone and everyone agrees Totally.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's really beautiful. Thank you so much for all of that, catherine. Any questions that are coming up for you.
Speaker 1:I would love for us to go back and I would take us all, I would say back a bit um, and I'm like I'm feeling into this phrase that we've used a lot on today's call and I'm even wondering if maybe Brenda and I have to do like a completely different podcast just on that alone, because I think we use it a lot and I don't think it's really simple. I don't think that everybody actually knows really what it is and because of that I'm sort of rewinding the conversation. I think you two have definitely touched on so many practical places of this, of the nourishment practice, in addition to things that people don't really think about. So, as I'm going back, I'm also going to recap. So if I, the thing I saw was sort of like a seesaw and on one side of the seesaw I'm thinking back, I'm also going to recap. So the thing I saw was sort of like a seesaw and on one side of the seesaw I'm thinking food and nourishment and what people would look at like what is fast food, what is non-food, like you know, with preservatives and things like that, what is really nourished and cooked food, what is organic food or non-organic food? You know the like on my left, then in the middle, where you would normally, on a seesaw, have like that little triangle right that holds the bar. Yeah, the fulcrum, oh, thank you. I'm thinking of how much do we move our body right, like what is movement, what is exercise, and whether or not it's punishing or if it's really just solid, it just is right. The fulcrum just is, that's the piece. So we either are doing or not doing it, and either way is fine. Sort of like right, that structured sort of movement. And then the right hand side.
Speaker 1:I thought, oh, wow, so many other things on that side of the seesaw that really either take up or down that, the actual consumption of food. So we have what is happening in our actual physical matter, in our mitochondrial or, as you discussed, like mother lineage, what is happening in our emotional life, right. Uh, clara, to repeat what you said, you said where am I right now and what can I actually handle? And that also bleeds into where is our mental body. Is it punishing the way I'm looking at this and does it therefore like just is? Does it make the seesaw drop Like all the way down? If you're punishing yourself, does it matter that you had all that organic food or does it not Right? Does it just completely X out the whole whole foods experience and seven hours of food prep? Did it just like fly off the seesaw? And it doesn't even matter, it's not even part of the equation. So I could completely go down that road because we've talked about so much of that here today, but I want to go back and bring it down. Oh, so simple.
Speaker 1:You said something like we don't have anything without energy. You made a reference to that energy being life force and God. When you say that, I want to just let, um, it's, it's true and right from for my mental listeners, it doesn't mean that if you're not nourished, you don't have God in your life, like there is an actual God, god in addition to like God, like life force, like the thing that actually feeds your cells. But the phrase that I'm going back to is stay with yourself under all conditions, and I am unclear if everybody listening knows exactly what that means and you stated, clara, so gorgeously in different places. Right, it means that you can have an intense experience and yet still stay with yourself, and I would say that.
Speaker 1:I would add, not staying with ourselves means, potentially, we're disassociating, or maybe it means that we have to have a cup of coffee, or maybe it means we're potentially eating chocolate chip cookies or potato chips so that we can ground and stay in our body, right. Or maybe it means we're just grabbing any food so that we could feel more satiated or able to stay. Maybe we're using the food as a distraction, or maybe we're using streaming services or maybe, like myself, maybe you watch Baby Reindeer or something, some other form of Netflix binge, something that helps you be able to be in the moment. But if I'm going to ask both of you to bring in some voices here, like if you were speaking to a layman, and we talk about this, like do not abandon yourself, stay with yourself. What does that actually mean for you, clara? Let's start there.
Speaker 4:Yeah, yeah, it means the ability to respond from like a conscious place. So I talk a lot about responsibility too, um, in my work, and I think responsibility has a lot to do with like a mature feminine presence, right, and people think like, oh, you better take responsibility, young lady, or like like responsibility feels like this. I don't want it like to a lot of people and I just think of it as the ability to respond right, like in this way, where we're not reacting right. I mean, that's the classic classic. I feel like this is like a classic like therapy definition kind of um, but it's true, when we are, when we stay with ourselves, we're rooted energetically into a place where we aren't reacting to our environment. We're being able to kind of like okay, I see this happening. What is like I have an ability here to say I'm going to respond this way or I'm not going to respond that way. Um, so yeah it. You know, in the most simple terms, if I was trying to explain it to like a brand new client, for example, that's how I would say it.
Speaker 4:It's like can you have some agency? Uh, in all situations, right, like is there where, where do you? Or you know for for another way to look at it. Where do you not have agency, right Like there? Where do you or you know for for another way to look at it?
Speaker 4:Where do you not have agency, right like where are you completely unable to respond in a way that was conscious and that could be like Catherine, you're saying, like you know, you grab the cookies when you're stressed, like that could be a totally reactive pattern, right, and you just don't have any agency there and that's okay, it's totally okay, there's nothing wrong with that, it's just good to know, you know, because knowing that is then how you maybe start to get some agency. They're starting to accept it, right, you can't ever transcend anything that you don't accept. I said that to somewhere like that. You know it's so like be staying with yourself is so much about acceptance, and you really cannot bring agency when you don't accept the facts that maybe chocolate chip cookies and you are like a total reactive pattern.
Speaker 1:Thank you. So well said, Brenda. Hmm, that's so good.
Speaker 3:I love that, clara. I would add to that of the honesty. Honesty and intimacy of being with yourself. Like in order to do any of these things, we need to be able to see it, and sometimes you can't even see it, and so part of my journey here has been wanting change which comes from my own desire. And then how do I have that change? Well, I have to be able to see myself honestly. And that goes back to, clara, what you were talking about with the mess, because I haven't always liked what I say, I don't always like what I say, but can I be with it anyway and can I love it anyway? And can I see myself? Can I see what I'm doing from like an observer's mindset?
Speaker 3:So for me, like meditation here as a practice, has been really powerful for me to be able to see myself, because only when I'm able to see myself can I make a change. And even then it can be pretty challenging. You know, when you're in a pattern of maybe disconnection with yourself or choosing one of those vices that we're talking about. You have to be able to see it in order to start making the changes, and it's taken me a long time to do all of that to be with what is actually true and not cover it up with my own predictions, because it's a lot to see yourself in these ways when you don't always like what you see, and so we have a culture of people who are choosing cookies and Netflix and scrolling when they're stressed, and alcohol and all sex, all kinds of things. So staying with myself is starts for me with the intimacy with myself and just being with myself in all the locations thank you.
Speaker 1:So what I'm hearing if I'm going to kind of bring this back in what I'm hearing, if I'm going to kind of bring this back in, clara you had said when we talked about what is self-love? Right? You gave such gorgeous definitions and what is nourishment Like? Self-love being staying with yourself, which we have now given a very mindful definition of staying with yourself, is the ability to stay in observation, in agency, in consciousness, staying present with what is, while also having the ability to respond, versus react to what is happening, able to then nourish yourself, which means requires reception, being able to receive what is being offered with potentially open arms, less judgment, non-punishment, because if there's any punishment, then that's not it, right. This is sort of where we're landing here on self-love and nourishment. I think we have touched on so many gorgeous places. Thank you so much, both of you, for going a little further into those pieces, brenda.
Speaker 3:Thanks for asking that, catherine.
Speaker 3:It's a great question, and what I want to add to that is the amount of self-love and devotion to myself and to my desire to have something different in my life, that I am willing to sit with the discomfort of choosing something else when it is so hard.
Speaker 3:I like to think of it like when you have mosquito bite and you want to scratch it so bad because it feels so good to scratch it. It's kind of like going through the pattern and like choosing the vice as opposed to which has been my practice. Luckily, summer's coming and I get to continue my practice of mosquito bites because they love me, um, which you probably have some antidote for, clara, probably. But sitting with the sensation of the itchiness and wanting to scratch it, the amount of love it takes for myself and being with myself to not scratch it, because I know that that is actually the medicine needed for it to heal, and that is something that we can build up over time. It's not something that we start out with. Yeah, it goes back to what you're saying about having the energy and the capacity to do that, but that, to me, is the practice totally and what.
Speaker 4:What I'm reminded of when you say that is like like nourishment as a practice isn't like eating pizza and cookies all day long, like and I think I mean so much of my personal work is so related to motherhood, because it's like I wouldn't let my kids, like eat popsicles for dinner.
Speaker 4:You know, even though they want to, even though that would make them entirely happy in the moment, you know later on they're going to be hungry, or like they're going to their blood sugar is going to plummet, and so, you know, nourishment really requires like both that that strong back and soft front, like it's like you have to be really attuned to your needs too, and that that requires sitting in the discomfort, like you're saying, like yeah, it would make me feel better in the moment to eat a Snickers bar, but what I actually need is like chicken breasts and rice, you know, and okay, like that's kind of like grindy and crunchy and like going to be harder and take more time and take more intention and take more planning. And do I have the capacity for that? Of course, like first and then, if I do, yes, and if I need to make some changes in my life to make that capacity available. Maybe that's you know how I mother myself here, how I get more access to the source of life, the mother.
Speaker 3:Beautiful. I have a question for you. I have so many questions, but we are going to be winding down. What is one of your big desires, Clara?
Speaker 4:what is one of your big desires, clara? I want to have my work and my family be like the same, like, like, obviously I'm gonna come on a podcast, I can't have my toddlers behind me screaming like that just wouldn't be in service to anyone or anything. But I want to, um, feel into, expand into somehow like, like this is big and vulnerable to say, but I feel like I have this, this mission, if you will, to expand like family and children embodiment, for lack of a better like. This is all new, but it's like this deep desire to bring my whole family into into this work that I do so like, almost just like being my family is the medicine, in a sense, um, and so I have a really big desire to figure out how to make that work in a way where, like you know, I can host retreats, for example, that like I don't have to go away from my kids for, and really bringing in, like my village to um. I don't know if this even makes sense, do you guys?
Speaker 3:feel what I'm saying. Yeah, okay.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's really beautiful.
Speaker 3:It really does that's really beautiful.
Speaker 1:It really does be the living embodiment of family and in doing so, bringing your own village and community, not just that you can serve in that way, but also so that people can see you as the possibility to also potentially recreate it, while also showing people that if you put your attention there, that you can to some, to some degree, create it for yourself yeah, like I wanted, I want to show people it's possible, especially women, to not have so much separation between, like purpose, soul, purpose, work and family.
Speaker 4:Like I have such a deep, uh, soul love for humanity and I believe family is, you know, on whatever level that is, like it is the continuation of humanity, like we need family, right, um, and there's something there that is just this deep, smoldering, tender desire.
Speaker 1:I would call it the core level. You set out at some level. It's the core level. Without it, you don't have it. We're all trying to create family in some way, shape or form. Some of us adopt families, some of us not meaning adopting children, I mean literally like adopting families, like I like hanging out with this family, and so what you're bringing forth is a way to create it in your own family, with intention, and so shall it be, or even better, and that's really beautiful. Thank you so much, clara, for joining us today. Brenda, are you good? I'm not sure if you had a question.
Speaker 3:I have a lot of questions, but that will have to be for another time. Yes, we must let Clara go.
Speaker 4:We must let Clara go. The joke in my family is like my name is Clara Wisner and I have some questions.
Speaker 3:I love that. I have some questions.
Speaker 1:I love that I always have questions.
Speaker 3:I would love to know what your family asks you, but I'm not asking you right now. It's been such a treat to have you today. I feel deeply moved by this conversation and I know it will be so in service to people listening who want to make a change in their life. I think people are so disconnected and so not nourished they don't even realize that nourishment is a thing and it's a beautiful desire. That is a beautiful desire. Imagine if every woman just said I want to be more nourished. So thank you for bringing what you bring, and can you let our listeners know where they can reach you? We're going to put it all in the show notes, but maybe just a little summation.
Speaker 4:Yeah, um, mostly Instagram and sub stack. Sub stack If you don't know what that is, it's kind of like a blog blogging platform, so I do a lot of longer form writing. That just doesn't work well on Instagram. So, uh, that's where I hang out the most, and then my website is actually pretty up to date. I do update it. It's clarawisnercom. I have some master classes on there that I've just put up, um, which is kind of exciting, so you can like buy like a two-hour class with me and watch it. Um, and I am speaking of this desire I am hosting a retreat at the end of September called Village, and it is a family embodiment retreat. So if you felt that resonate in you when I was speaking about that, reach out. I'll be announcing the details soon. Yeah, and so that's happening too. Just want to put that out there. It's for families.
Speaker 4:So it sounds absolutely perform.
Speaker 3:What a beautiful offering. Thank you so much. Thank you so much for being here with us today. We love you.
Speaker 4:Thank you. I love this podcast. I love you ladies. It's such an honor and just fun, just fun to be here.
Speaker 3:Thank you for joining us on the Desire is Medicine podcast.
Speaker 2:Desire invites us to be honest, loving and deeply intimate with ourselves and others. You can find our handles in the show notes. We'd love to hear from you.
