42 ~ Mindful Connections: The Art of Listening

Learn how curating your environment and being mindful of where you direct your energy can lead to a fulfilling and empowered life.  Consciously surrounding yourself with supportive individuals serves as an inspiring blueprint for anyone looking to make small, intentional changes that yield significant life improvements.

In this heartfelt episode, we delve into the art of genuine listening and its ability to deepen connections and foster intimacy. Through personal anecdotes, we uncover the stark difference between being truly present in conversations and simply waiting for your turn to speak. 

Highlighting a memorable encounter, this episode underscores how silence and attentive listening can create a space for authentic sharing and vulnerability. Discover the transformative power of asking deeper questions and how this practice can enrich your relationships, making every interaction more meaningful and heartfelt.

Chapters

• 0:08 Deepening Desire and Attention Practice
• 9:19 The Art of Listening and Connection

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:08

Welcome to Desire is Medicine. We are two very different women living a life led by desire, inviting you into our world.

Speaker 2: 0:16

I'm Brenda. I'm a devoted practitioner to being my fully expressed true self in my daily life. Motherhood relationships and my business Desire has taken me on quite a ride and every day I practice listening to and following the voice within. I'm a middle school teacher turned coach and guide of the feminine.

Speaker 1: 0:36

And I'm Catherine, devoted to living my life as the truest and hopefully the highest version of me. I don't have children, I've never been married. I've spent equal parts of my life in corporate as in some down and low shady spaces. I was the epitome of tired and wired and my path led me to explore desire. I'm a coach, guide, energy worker and a forever student, even after decades of inner work.

Speaker 2: 1:00

We are humble beginners on the mat, still exploring, always curious. We believe that listening to and following the nudge of desire is a deep spiritual practice that helps us grow.

Speaker 1: 1:12

On the Desires Medicine podcast. We talk to each other, we interview people we know and love about the practice of desire, bringing in a very important piece that is often overlooked being responsible for our desire, piece that is often overlooked being responsible for our desire. Welcome back, welcome back, welcome back, welcome back. So we are still on the topic of self-love, but I'm bump. Yes, we are. We were recently speaking about self-love from the location of what if we loved ourselves. Like we're celebrities, like we just basically give ourselves enough grace as newborn babies, as we give newborn babies and we just Googling and eyeing at all of our things, even when we just have crap on our faces or we've stepped in crap or we've created some crap. Right, just can we love ourselves, regardless of what the external conditions look like? Right? Can we be unconditionally loving to ourselves? And in that conversation we're talking about currency, the currency and the value of the dollar, in addition to the currency and value of our attention, looking at how we can put our attention on our village, putting our attention on are these people, do these people that I consider my closest friends, these people who are the average of me, my closest five is this do they resemble the way I want to live my life. Are they poster boards for the things that I value? And we're also looking at the reason that that is because we have a real primal need to want to feel safe, loved and belong, and we will either rise to match our friends or dip to match our friends. For lack of a better word, I'm gonna just use dip or lower. That's how we vote with our choices and that's how we vote with our dollar.

Speaker 1: 3:23

Now let's look at what is the value of attention. I'm going to turn to my colleague here, brenda, because she's here, of course. She's here because I love my Brenda. She is my co-host. And, brenda, when we think about attention the attention in our own lives, the attention that we put on others, the attention that we put on the people that we're surrounded with I think you have an awesome attention practice. I would say that you're really good at this. Is it au natural or is it something that you've worked on?

Speaker 2: 4:02

Well, thank you, catherine, something I've definitely worked on, definitely, since I've been on a spiritual growth journey for the past 15, 16 years, I have realized, oh, the things I put my attention on grow and I can choose what I put my attention on. So I think it was one of the other episodes that we were talking about scrolling on Instagram, watching the E-channel, comparing and despairing. Those are not things I put my attention on anymore. I don't put my attention on things that bring me down, things that tell me that I'm wrong or I need to be better in any way. I don't put my attention on circles or people that I don't want to be around, that are complaining. I don't want to hang out with women anymore who are complaining. I don't want to be in big drinking crowds. These are just some ideas of what I don't put my attention on. Where I used to put my attention and myself, my physical body, in these places, before and now I really curate my life.

Speaker 2: 5:17

So is my attention practice something I've always had and something I've grown? Yes, both are true, and I think it's really important to know. It's very empowering to know that we get to create our life. We get to create our life, and this is where desire comes in. And sometimes it does feel impossible, and I know that. But really can we tap into what is it that we truly want and then take baby steps in that direction? Because I think that's the game is baby steps.

Speaker 2: 5:56

And so I do surround myself with people who thank God, I'm so grateful for this. Truly surround myself with people who thank God, I'm so grateful for this truly Surround myself with people who are growth-oriented, not right or wrong, success or failure, and it's not that people around me and myself don't ever feel those things, because we're human. Sometimes I'm like, oh, I really messed that one up. Good, treating myself like a newborn baby and appreciating the growth and the journey, and what am I learning along the way and how can I apply that into my life? And I am really grateful that I've surrounded myself with people like that. So this is something that I have always had and it's, I think, grown and deepened over time, as I've really understood the concept that we can create our life.

Speaker 1: 6:46

Really felt into the concept that we can create our life. I love that. I'd love for us to lean in I'm not sure how off the cuff, how good we are you myself, at describing when we think about our own internal attention and we put our intention towards something, it means that we're interested in it. Right, and the phrase of asking interesting or interested questions, and it's one of the ways of practicing putting our attention on something. And it's one of the ways of practicing putting our attention on something Like is it interesting or am I interested? Right, like when we start playing with the noun, the verb of it, all the grammar.

Speaker 1: 7:32

I can say that here, when I look at Britannica, the difference between interested and interesting. One of the things that we need to remember is that interested describes a person who has a feeling of wanting to learn more about something. I'm interested in technology, I want to know more about it. Interesting and interesting describes the thing that makes someone feel that way. You feel interested in something because that is interesting. I remember a time in my life when I don't know if it was just on demand or very popular. Brenda, you might remember where people say, oh interesting, and I'm like, oh, what's interesting about it? They're like I don't know, it's just interesting that's funny I think about.

Speaker 2: 8:28

I love this distinction. I think interested is putting your attention on something or someone, like really being curious and really getting curious and like, oh, putting your attention on this other person and not making it about you. I feel like interesting is making it about you in some way, like, oh, you want to be interesting, like it's it's not that we're not interesting, but like trying to be interesting is putting the attention on yourself and there's like some ego in there. You know, as opposed to, interested is really taking your attention and putting it on someone or something. And now that is something that I've really worked on cultivating over time.

Speaker 1: 9:08

It's so hard. It's so hard. I agree with you Keep going.

Speaker 2: 9:16

I was just going to say it's very. You know, I used to work in a school, I used to teach sixth grade, and we used to talk about listening skills and and it almost seems trite like, oh, I want to be a good listener, but really it is quite a skill, because most people, when they're talking to somebody else there, are you really listening or are you just thinking about the next thing that you want to say? And that is really a skill to just truly sit and be present, and I do that on this podcast all the time. That's something that I work on is, can I just truly be present in the moment and listen and then respond? I think there's a lot of self-trust involved in that and trust in the process and letting go of ego, letting go of a particular way that you want it to look.

Speaker 2: 10:11

I had one experience.

Speaker 2: 10:13

This is when I was also teaching.

Speaker 2: 10:15

We were having an assembly and I went up at the end to talk to the person who was doing the assembly and, oh my god, this moment just stayed with me so deeply because we I was talking to him and he was Listening.

Speaker 2: 10:32

It was one of the first experiences in my life when I felt like someone was truly listening and when I was done speaking, he didn't speak, he waited. He waited to see if I was going to say something else and there was a line behind me of people who wanted to talk to him because he was the speaker, he was the celebrity, but that didn't matter to him. And I had this real visceral experience of what it means to be a listener from my point of view, what it really means to be listened to, and it really stayed with me and this is really going back probably 20 years at this point, but it was so visceral I could feel it in this moment when I share it, and I wanted that level of attention. I want to be able to listen to somebody in the way that that man listened to me, because that was beautiful and that is a curated practice over time and it's intentional.

Speaker 1: 11:36

It's such a beautiful story. Thank you so much. I don't think I've ever heard that story before. It is really potent when someone, when we feel really listened to in that way, when someone is willing to wait after we've finished listening and I'm not going to wrap, I'm not going to bring this into self-love just yet, I'm going to kind of keep going here with attention and, brenda, that was just such a gorgeous story I feel it Like oh, that's so wonderful, I love that you got to experience that. And at the same time, say to yourself, oh, I want to curate that level of experience as well for others.

Speaker 1: 12:23

And when you were describing the difference between interested and interesting, I'm like, yes, I see that so often, especially when I am in groups of people who haven't really done the work and I don't even want to limit it to that People who potentially just have not learned this nuance just yet.

Speaker 1: 12:44

Often, when we're connecting with others, we're listening, and then part of the story potentially reminds me of something and I'm like I want to put my two cents in.

Speaker 1: 12:58

So, for example, you're speaking of this and maybe right now I want to now talk two cents in.

Speaker 1: 13:03

So, for example, you're speaking of this and maybe right now, I want to now talk about my experience. The first time I was someone listened to me in this way and the way that it was this way for me. And now, all of a sudden, the attention that I had, the pristine attention that I had on you while you gave this beautiful story, is now back on me, because I'm talking about how it also happened to me, and this is one of the ways that we've been taught to communicate, right Like is there something resonant in the story for you? How does this apply to you? And now let this person know how it applies to you, versus just me being with the beauty of wow, brenda, this sounds so potent, especially the part where he's not speaking and there's a full line behind you and you can really feel this person's beautiful space like a gift, like you've finished speaking and they're just silent, just waiting for you to let them know what the next step of the cadence of conversation is. Right.

Speaker 2: 14:09

Exactly. Yeah, it's really beautiful, and I think that's how we can go deep, you know. Or else we're just kind of like kids in the sandbox. There's like an age, like maybe it's two years old, where kids are doing what we call parallel play, like maybe they're both in the sandbox but they're not really interacting with each other, they're just doing their own thing. And that kind of is like the conversation that we're talking about versus really interacting with each other. And you know just now, when you reflected that back to me, we can really go deep because we can go deeper into that moment. You know, and I feel listened to and appreciated, and I think that that's true in conversations and in relationships.

Speaker 2: 14:57

If we're always just doing our own thing and saying our own thoughts, like the kids in the sandbox, we're missing opportunities to really get to know somebody and to really put attention on somebody else, somebody that we potentially love, right, and that we spend time with, and there's always something we can add about ourselves, a time when I, or oh, that reminded me of. But what if, instead, we just listened and asked them to go deeper? You know, what was that like for you? Wow, how did that feel? There's so many great ways to put quality attention on people. I think when you do that, if the person's receptive right, they just can open like a flower and I think that's a beautiful skill to cultivate to create a space in conversation where somebody can open and like, really share themselves. I think that's ultimately what we really want in relationship is that level of depth and intimacy and honesty and vulnerability like the deeper things inside.

Speaker 1: 16:09

I do think that that's something that we want, let's play and practice. So how was that for you when he just paused and you knew there was a line behind you and he was just silent, mm?

Speaker 2: 16:28

Honestly, it changed everything for me. It really I could picture it right now. I could picture the stage. I could picture him. He was talking about something very deep and vulnerable related to grief, and I could picture his face and, like I have a picture of the whole thing. It's like a flash in a moment of my life. So many moments I've forgotten, but this one is like, really present and it showed me what was possible. In listening and, honestly, I've been striving to do exactly what he did in that moment ever since, when I really want to tap into somebody and have quality conversation, I thinking about this man. I'm thinking about that moment. He's, he made a lasting impression on me. I don't think he would have any idea that he did, but I have a lot of gratitude for how he showed up in that embodied way and showed me what was possible.

Speaker 1: 17:33

It made a real difference in my life Sounds like you got to experience connection while everything was moving rather quickly around you and yet at the same time, you got to experience some timelessness with another human. That sounds really, really beautiful.

Speaker 2: 17:49

Yeah, it's a beautiful way of saying it. It's a really beautiful way of saying it. It was a heart connection and I was mostly impressed by he. It's not that he didn't care that there was a line of people, but everybody was going to get that quality of attention from him. That was the feeling. It's kind of like when you go to a small grocery store and they're talking to you and you're waiting online like maybe a little local butcher, and you know it's going to take longer, but everything there is so much better, including the conversation, and you go there knowing that it feels like that and I think those are. I know I want more of that in my life as opposed to the quick quick things.

Speaker 1: 18:34

It's interesting, right these spaces where we know that the part that would be more nourishing is to pause and allow the other human to just have their time, while at the same time there are so many places in my life where I'm not going to go to the butcher or potentially I don't want to get on the elevator with such person because I know it's just going to take so much longer and I'm just ready for the next thing, I'm ready for the next step. I don't really have the capacity to do it differently in that moment. So I love how you said that this particular gentleman. The felt sense in you was oh, everybody behind me is going to have the same quality attention. So it's not just the quality attention that you can potentially provide someone, but also how much range do you have and does it feel? Potentially maybe it doesn't have to feel infinite, but it definitely can have a surplus sort of feeling like, oh, this person isn't handing me something that they're depleted already. They're handing me something and there is a surplus here.

Speaker 2: 19:37

I think that's a great thing it really is and we can.

Speaker 2: 19:41

I love how you said sometimes you're rushing around or you're on more of a schedule and sometimes you have more of that spaciousness in your life.

Speaker 2: 19:50

And I don't I could say if he shows up like that everywhere, is there ever a time that man rushes and doesn't really have time to talk to someone with that quality of attention? Maybe. But when we go back to curating our life and creating our life the way we want it, I would guess that this thing that he was giving an assembly on was so important to him that he made it be that he had the spaciousness to fully offer himself in this way in service. And that's how I like to show up to my clients, that's how I like to show up for this podcast. And then there's times where I don't have that space or that capacity. I think that's where the self-love does come in and taking care of myself so that when I want to give that kind of quality attention I can. And then there's times where I'm just resting and watching Netflix for a few hours because I'm tired and I don't even want to answer my phone.

Speaker 1: 20:51

I love that discerning piece that you brought in with self-love. It's true, when we're loving ourselves, we're asking ourselves not just do I have it in the tank to give right now this pristine attention of mine that I've potentially cultivated, but also do I want to? Not just do I have it, but do I want to actually spend it here? So this would be bringing it back to the self-love piece that our self-love series learning how to be interested versus interesting and in that learning, being discerning of where you want to spend whatever you have cultivated like is. And this is part of our vote.

Speaker 1: 21:35

When we talk about the value of the dollar, here we are talking about the value of our attention, that attention not taking it for granted if it's been created and knowing where and with whom we want to spend it and doing our very, very best to spend it well.

Speaker 1: 21:53

And if I were to bring it in deeper into self-love, it's sort of if being interested is being willing to listen to the deeper thing, being willing to ask for more, being willing to pause and offer the person more time and more space for more, being willing to pause and offer the person more time and more space, then can we do the same to ourselves when, potentially, we just want to lay down and be tired. Can we just allow ourselves to lay down and rejuvenate the moments when we say to ourselves, oh, I don't want to do that for whatever reason? Can we just honor that voice and slowly and quickly and cleanly exit and making it all okay and part of just the human experience, without perfection? So today's episode doesn't necessarily have a gorgeous bow around it. We're just bringing more and more open-ended questions for us to be with around this topic of self-love. Is there anything that you'd like to say before we close and wrap up here, brenda?

Speaker 2: 22:55

I really love these conversations and I've been thinking as you've been talking what do you need in order to have what you want in your life? When, know when do you need to go inward and take care of yourself? And can you hear that voice and do you follow it in whatever way that you can, or do you override it and ignore it? There's a cost to overriding and ignoring that voice.

Speaker 2: 23:21

And it's definitely a skill and a muscle that we can build of listening to the voice and following our body that is always speaking to us, and can you give it to yourself so that you can show up to your relationships, to your life, to the things that you've created, with the kind of attention and love that you truly want? I believe that we want to show up to our relationships, to our family, to our children, to our friends, with our true best self, and I just want to invite everyone to say, to inquire with themselves what do I need? To feel more resourced so that I can show up with the best attention that I have in each moment? What do you need and can you give it to yourself? I love that.

Speaker 1: 24:12

I love ending on that note. I'm just going to repeat it on that note. What do you need and can you give it to yourself, and that's a wrap. Until next time.

Speaker 2: 24:29

Thank you for joining us on the Desire is Medicine podcast.

Speaker 1: 24:33

Desire invites us to be honest, loving and deeply intimate with ourselves and others. You can find our handles in the show notes. We'd love to hear from you.