Desire As Medicine Podcast
Catherine & Brenda interview people and talk to each other about desire. They always come back to us being 100% responsible for our desires.
Contact us by email:
desireasmedicine@gmail.com
catherine@catherinenavarro.com
goddessbrenda24@gmail.com
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@desireasmedicine
@CoachCatherineN
@Brenda_Fredericks
Desire As Medicine Podcast
55 ~ Nudism with Linda Barsa
Imagine a world where societal norms no longer dictate how you should feel about your own body. That's the transformative journey that our guest, Linda Barsa, a queer nudist and life coach, who's story is one of battling societal expectations and depression, discovering the liberating world of nudism, and ultimately finding an unshakable sense of self-love and purpose. Listen as Linda recounts her struggles and triumphs, offering a beacon of hope for anyone on their own path to self-acceptance.
Linda takes us through her first anxiety-filled visit to a nude beach and how that moment of vulnerability evolved into a profound sense of freedom and body comfort. By confronting deeply ingrained insecurities, Linda reveals how nudism has been a catalyst for spiritual growth and a greater sense of aliveness. We challenge societal conditioning around body image and celebrate the joy that comes with embracing our true selves sans societal judgment. This discussion is more than skin-deep—it’s about peeling back layers of self-doubt to discover the real you.
We tackle the often misunderstood relationship between nudity and sexuality, emphasizing the importance of intent and clear communication within nudist spaces. Linda shares her insights, highlighting how nudism fosters genuine connections, built on trust and mutual respect for boundaries.
From the nuances of being naked among family to the role of self-love in nudism, this episode is a rich tapestry of personal growth and body acceptance. Get ready to be inspired by the liberating power of authenticity and the joy that comes from living life unmasked.
Connect with Linda:
Facebook and Instagram:@LindaVivianaBarsa
YouTube: @LindaVivianaB
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If you'd like to learn more about 1:1 or group coaching with Brenda or Catherine message them and book a Sales Call to learn more.
Email:
desireasmedicine@gmail.com
goddessbrenda24@gmail.com
catherine@catherinenavarro.com
Instagram:
@desireasmedicinepodcast
@Brenda_Fredericks
@CoachCatherineN
Welcome to Desire is Medicine. We are two very different women living a life led by desire.
Speaker 2:Inviting you into our world. I'm Brenda. I'm a devoted practitioner to being my fully expressed true self in my daily life, motherhood relationships and my business Desire has taken me on quite a ride and every day I practice listening to and following the voice within. I'm a middle school teacher turned coach and guide of the feminine.
Speaker 1:And I'm Catherine, devoted to living my life as the truest and hopefully the highest version of me. I don't have children, I've never been married. I've spent equal parts of my life in corporate as in some down and low shady spaces. I was the epitome of tired and wired and my path led me to explore desire. I'm a coach, guide, energy worker and a forever student.
Speaker 2:Even after decades of inner work, we are humble beginners on the mat, still exploring, always curious. We believe that listening to and following the nudge of desire is a deep spiritual practice that helps us grow.
Speaker 1:On the Desires Medicine podcast. We talk to each other, we interview people we know and love about the practice of desire, bringing in a very important piece that is often overlooked being responsible for our desire, piece.
Speaker 2:That is often overlooked being responsible for our desire. Welcome listeners and friends. We are back in season two of the Desire as Medicine podcast. I am joined with my amazing co-host, catherine hey, catherine, hi, so good to be here with you today. And we have an amazing guest, my friend Linda Barca. And I'm going to talk about Linda for a moment before she gets to speak, because we love to do that here on the Desires Medicine podcast.
Speaker 2:So I've known Linda for many years from many different communities that we've both been a part of and currently currently we are both in a nudist community together. Linda is vivacious, energetic, smart and basically a true joy to be around. She has a magnetic presence and you cannot help but feel alive speaking with her. Here's how she describes herself. She says I'm a queer nudist working as a life coach in New Jersey.
Speaker 2:My passion for personal development, psychology and spirituality led me to discover a thriving subculture of community that was nudism, where I found self-acceptance and purpose. It felt to me a natural next step to become an advocate of nudism, as I wanted to be courageous in the face of shame that I know many, many chronically feel about what they look like and who they truly are. That is absolutely beautiful and, as Catherine and I have been diving deeper into our self-love series, we really wanted to have Linda on. Linda just came to me as somebody who is so comfortable in her own skin. So, as we continue this conversation about desire and self-love and what that really means, we are going to explore that today through the lens of that's right nudism. So I am so excited for today's conversation. Linda truly embodies the joy and pleasure and ease, which is really a beautiful thing to say the ease of being in her own skin, and that is a huge gift to this world. So welcome Linda.
Speaker 3:Thank you so much. Wow, what a robust welcome. I felt like I was accepting an award. Thank you so much.
Speaker 2:You're so welcome. It is robust. You're robust and that's why we wanted to have you on today, and I think it's a pretty magical, unheard of thing we're hearing it more and more in the conversations in these rooms of being comfortable in our own body, and you really embody that. So and I love that we're going to talk about nudism today, so I just want to dive into have you always been a nudist or how did you begin the journey of nudism?
Speaker 3:So, no, nudism came later on. For me, I think it was a response to my childhood. I think I went sort of in the opposite direction, maybe a bit of a black sheep in my family, but not just in my family, just in society. I think I was very sensitive to other people's emotions, my whole family. A lot of them are therapists, and so I love psychology and I was into, like, religion and spirituality, but I felt always this, this formality and a sense of restriction, the sense of I saw people around me that I love, just I don't know like critical of their bodies and a lot of like judgment towards themselves and even towards others. And I think there was just I was looking for something that like that filled that, that sense of emptiness or whatever I want you to call it. And I didn't know even nudism wasn't on my radar, it was not something I even knew existed. You know I wasn't thinking. You know what I didn't know? Even nudism wasn't on my radar, it was not something I even knew existed. You know I wasn't thinking. You know what I need? I need nudism, like I just, you know, as a kid you don't know that. And so I was always searching and I and I studied psychology and and I think I did all the right things because I wanted to make people happy, you know, kind of a normal thing. And then, when I was in college, I kind of hit my lowest low of depression because basically all the things that I had been taught and all the things that I thought were the right things to do, just honestly, truly, when I checked in with myself, didn't make me happy and I was, I felt, really angry, frustrated and depressed about the fact that all these things that people said I was supposed to do, either either explicitly or implicitly, um, weren't, wasn't making me happy and I, I just I didn't understand how my life was tanking, even though I had all of these supposed blessings, and I just didn't understand it. Um so, and then I kind of went in the opposite direction and I was like, okay, um, these things that are supposed to make me happy, I did all the good girl things I'm supposed to do. Um, let me try all the bad girl things, let me try all the other things. So you know, I was like I have nothing to lose at this point. I just like I didn't.
Speaker 3:I got to the point where I was physically sick, I was emotionally sick, I was failing out of school and I was like, well, it's worth a try to just try something different. I didn't realize, like, how limited I was in my scope. I was just doing so many specific things and there was just a whole world ahead of me that I had no clue about. So I started to do all these different weird, taboo things so, and then I started to find that I got happier as I did all these things, and some of those paths were not for me. Some of them I'm like, oh, I did it, never want to do that again.
Speaker 3:And then I I guess I had the opportunity to try nudism. I remember being sort of curious about it, but I never. I mean, who has the opportunity? You know, the opportunity doesn't always strike you. But I had a friend who I guess was a nudist or he knew about the nude beach and he wanted to go, and I was like, all right, he actually surprised me. He said come to my house with another friend, we'll go to the beach. And then it was like surprise, nude beach. But he told me like the night before, and I was like oh, I, I knew I was curious, um, but I was like, yeah, I'll try it, but I was very nervous, um, and then from there, it's like the rest is history.
Speaker 3:I was obsessed after, um, the first time going, and I remember being extremely nervous but also extremely, like, exhilarated by it.
Speaker 3:So it's kind of the both that, both thing, and I got so into it that I just tried to see every way that I could be a part of it. So I found out that there are resorts, there are communities, there are communes, there's there's a global community, there's online websites, there's social networking all for nudists and I had no clue. And so then my life started to really pick up. I networking all for nudists, and I had no clue. And so then my life started to really pick up. I had friends, I had fun, I had job opportunities, I had like all these connections were coming through as a result and more and more. And they still and those things still continue to come. And then from news and nudism, more opportunities came, like other things now that weren't even related to nudism coaching and and all sorts of things. So that's kind of it in a nutshell coaching and and all sorts of things. So that's kind of it in a nutshell.
Speaker 2:That is fascinating. I love how you just went one time and you said you became obsessed with it. I think that a lot of people right now listening going oh my God, I can't imagine being nude on a beach or nude at a lake or nude anywhere. And so what was it like for you that first time you said you were? You said you were nervous. Were you self conscious? And how did you get over that? Or maybe you weren't. Can you talk about that a?
Speaker 3:little bit Sure. Yeah, I remember the feeling of just like a lot of anxiety in my body, in my heart, a sort of breathlessness, but I, you know, because I felt that I felt like there's something here for me, because I'm obviously having such a emotional and physiological response, like, I felt like, in a way, like something like out of control a little and I was like, well, there's something here for me, like, why am I feeling so strongly about this, especially, you know, from my past of having depression, you know, where you don't feel strongly about anything? I was like I feel a lot here. So I was like I got to see what's here and I always had the sense of like, if there's that much emotion around a thing, it's worth looking at. So I always, I think, because of my psychology background, which also ties into my spiritual spirituality background, I get curious about things like that. So I was like, let me see what this is about. I don't really know why. I mean, it's kind of weird.
Speaker 3:So I remember being specifically self-conscious, like my I went with my two friends. They're attractive. I was like, oh, I'm going to look ugly, I need to like keep up with them. So I remember being worried about like body, hair and like making sure that, like I was totally, you know, everything needed to be shaven or whatever. And at the time I weighed more than I wanted to weigh. So I was like, all right, they're going to see it all.
Speaker 3:And I used to also suck in my stomach a lot. I don't remember if that time I there was a time in my life where I decided I was going to stop sucking in my stomach, but I know that in high school I always sucked in my stomach. I don't remember that. I probably was sucking in my stomach when people saw me nude for the first time. I don't, I don't remember specifically that piece, but I kind of just did that all the time.
Speaker 3:And I remember I was conscious of the way I was sitting down because, you know, the fat looks different the way you're sitting and because I wanted people to like see me as attractive. And now it's like I'm so free of that, I'm so grateful, I'm so free of that now, but I remember that that was one of my things for sure. And then after that, yeah, I wanted to see more opportunities to do it and I just love how far I've come and I like to think about that moment because I remember the fear and then, when I compare it to how I feel now, where I'm just so comfortable, I tell people, like I could get in the middle of Times Square naked and I would have no problem, I would not be nervous at all, whereas other things in my life do make me nervous. So I do like to lean into the things that make me nervous because I think again there's something there spiritually to grow from.
Speaker 2:I completely agree with you and I remember the first time I was like taking my shirt off. I was in a women's community and there was an activity where we were invited to take our shirts off and like show our breasts, and that was extremely confronting to me. That was my first experience with nudity and, oh my God, that was nerve wracking. But there's so much conditioning that we have to keep our bodies covered and we are so self-conscious and it's passed down through the generations and we see it around us cover up, don't show your body. And then we develop these like real insecurities around our bodies when we're comparing. But I have to say I have had the same experience.
Speaker 2:Oh my goodness, once I took my shirt off I was like, oh, this is great. There's so much freedom in it. There's so much freedom in it. And it's not about being naked necessarily, but there's something in doing that which you think you can't do and there's something about exposing the thing that you're trying to hide. And I don't know that I was necessarily hiding my body. It's just, you know, we don't really walk around taking our clothes off unless we're in an intentional place, and I had a really big experience from that. And now I'm in this nudist community and I absolutely love it. It is freeing and amazing and I'm really grateful for it.
Speaker 1:The piece that had the most sensation for me isn't really, you know, one of the major reasons why we have Linda on, but I'm so happy to have you, linda. Linda said this. I want to just quote her because it had so much potency, like leaning into the things that make her nervous, and I thought, wow, what a way to live right. And this is the biggest, the thought that has the most richness for me. Someone, linda, who herself has said oh, I struggled with some depression. I was going through a time where I really didn't feel much, and then here came this opportunity where something that has such high sensation in my body some of it fear, some of it excitement, curiosity and hell I wasn't feeling anything before. Now I feel this, like I'm going to lean into this. And she has so much ease and joy here now it actually brings her joy right. She says I'm just kind of hanging with my friends. That is such a profound life lesson, like it's so much beauty in that, in to find your aliveness.
Speaker 3:Finding aliveness in while also finding freedom in your own skin yeah, I started to definitely see that the things that most of the things that are considered weird or taboo, like I, often like them and not all of them, but I I'm sort of realizing that I'm weirder than I was letting myself be, and I have a suspicion that a realizing that I'm weirder than I was letting myself be and I have a suspicion that a lot of people are weirder than they're letting themselves be, and then ultimately that makes you you're not weird, because everyone's weird. So it's like no, it's weird.
Speaker 1:I completely hear you. You're weirder than you let yourself be. It sounds like, when we think of normal, that we could swap out that phrase and say, like, how much am I willing to conform, how much am I willing to be less of an individual and more match what is happening around me, so that I don't stand out and we're losing parts of ourselves? And in losing parts of ourselves, right, finding ourselves in a place where, oh wow, I kind of feel numb or dull, or life doesn't have that same spark, I wanted to ask thank you, thank you for that.
Speaker 1:Oh my gosh, you just said so many gorgeous things the two of you have me like ah, one of the things that came up for me was when I think of nudity, or currently, right now, when we think of societal nudity, when we think of nudity as a society, we have a nude beach or we have nude communities because for the most part, we don't all live sort of nudist, a nudist lifestyle. To a certain extent, when we think of nudity, I would say that the majority of people think nude and they think sex. Nude equals some form of potential sexual act, or it's a sense of foreplay, like for you, can you think back to a time Were you able to see the line, or is there a line for you here where naked is sexual and naked is not sexual, or is there even a line?
Speaker 3:sexual or is there even a line? Yeah, I'm definitely aware that most people see nudism or nudity as sexual. Being nude, the act of being nude, is sexual. I will say that I've been in the community so long that I think my gauge of like what the normal people feel is a little off. Like it's hard for me to get back to that place of like where I feel like it, where I can connect with people that are like don't get it Like. It actually is hard for I have to kind of go back to try to connect with that mindset.
Speaker 3:I mean I I guess I'm not afraid of sexuality, like for me it's not a sexual thing. But again, like everything is what you make it. You can make something sexual, you can make it not sexual. I mean we are sexual and we're not sexual. I mean I just feel like in any moment you can decide what the intent is. And I think a lot of people are very, are not sensitive to the nuance there. I've always felt the nuance there and I can understand that it can be hard to understand the nuance, especially when there's, I mean, the sexual dynamics are so in the world, are just so convoluted. I mean there's people that want more sex that aren't getting it. There's people that want, like there's just so much to unpack, I think, with that. So I get that it's confusing. I think that people that are confused are legitimately confused and I think the guiding light for me is like, again, it's about intent.
Speaker 3:It's about coming into any encounter, any segment of your life, with a certain intent, like what do you want it to be? Do you want it to be sexual? Be honest with yourself. You got to be honest with yourself, do you? Maybe you truly want it to be sexual and maybe that's a thing that you need to explore. But again, specifically, the nudist community is the intent of it is not sexual. Some people that maybe have sexual intent explore it to some degree. But again, there's a whole community. Also, maybe some people don't realize that, like I'm a big believer in, if you have sexual things you want to explore, there's a way to consensually explore it and there are communities you can do it. There's people you can talk to. There's all. There's consensual ways. There's, you know, bdsm dynamics that you can get into if you want to explore those things. All of that, and I think there's ways of having open relationships. I think there's so many ways for people that have longing around sexuality to explore that Nudism, specifically, is not that.
Speaker 3:That said, when I go into nudist space, like I'm still me, you know, I'm still like a sexual being, right, I still have my genitals, but the intent is not really like let's like try to arouse, let's try to, you know. So I'm clear on my intent. Now again, we can't control everybody and it's nice to have general guidelines. So that's why people often feel safer at a resort than maybe at a beach, because a nude beach can be a place where people with a variety of different intents go there.
Speaker 3:You try to group people with the same intent together so that it is like, you know, we're having a mutually fun time. You know that it is like you know we're having a mutually fun time, you know, so that the people that want to be sexual go to their sexual places and the people that just want, like you know, kid friendly nudity was just like a day in the sun, you know, on your boat, just sailing, eating your snacks, like you know, just very chill, like that is more in line with nudism. But yeah, it's super confusing and I don't blame anyone for being confused.
Speaker 1:Thank you so much for that elaboration. I think what I'm hearing is that being nude is sort of potentially equal parts in our society. Let's say, to a woman dressing provocatively, it's like this is not an invitation, this is just a way of living, a way of walking through the world, and the way to be clear about it would be conversation, like if somebody wants to be in a more sexually aroused community, they can find that and they can intentionally have those conversations. I think that's a. I love how it has moved. I think that's a. I love how it has moved.
Speaker 1:It makes people become more responsible for what they want and what they don't want, so that they are in the right rooms and playing with the right people. Right. Like yes, if I'm not a skateboarder, I'm not hanging out with the skateboarders. Right, if I am not a gymnast or I don't want to break my back, that's not the thing that I'm doing. Like being really clear. Like act. Even if we were just to think of somebody who's athletic or active, it's not athletic and active. Everywhere you have particular sports that you play in and so, yes, here you are nude. And nude does not equal sex, it just means what it is, it's just nude, and if you wanted it to equal something else, then you would either go to those places or have consensual conversations with people and figure out where to have the exact experience that you're looking to have. But nude itself is not the key card of entry. Thank you so much. I love that, brenda.
Speaker 2:Thank you both for all of that. I think these are great distinctions. I think they're really important distinctions because I think we have a lot of distortions around sex in our culture and I love that being nude is not inherently sexual in these communities and I want to bring up this beautiful piece for myself in being in a nudist community that it's generational. There's families here and I love that you brought up kids spaces, linda. There's families who have been here, who are now grandparents, who grew up here with their parents and their grandparents, and now they have their children and their grandchildren here and that is just really unheard of to most people because we have so many distortions around how we need to be with people. But I am in spaces where families can be naked together or you know, one of the most beautiful things that I've seen here was seeing like out on the lake. There's like a dock and you know, grandfather was once playing with some of his grandchildren and the kids are diving in and I just watched them and it was just absolutely innocent and beautiful and you would see that scene absolutely anywhere around the world with bathing suits on and we would find it right. But here they were without bathing suits on and it was just so comfortable and so beautiful, and I think that it's a really great thing to see, like, of what's possible with our bodies and how comfortable we can really be. We don't need to hide our bodies and you can if you want to. And you know, listen, if you don't want to be into nudism, don't be into it, keep your clothes on. You can totally do that, but it can be really lovely and natural and I've love to.
Speaker 2:Actually, I could talk about that a little bit, just seeing all kinds of bodies. I don't think that we see bodies. Where do we see bodies besides? Maybe who you're in an intimate relationship with, maybe your parents or your siblings or your friends, maybe, and there's plenty of families and people who they never see anyone else naked. They never see anyone else naked, but here, in a nudist community, you see bodies and it is really, I think, part of being a human to see bodies and to see what does an older person's body look like. We don't see that in our culture and that contributes to ageism as well. But you see people and you see them in their humanity contributes to ageism as well. But you see people and it's you see them in their humanity and it has really helped me accept and love myself on a deeper level.
Speaker 3:So I'm curious if you have anything, any thoughts on that, linda, yeah, I often say that I feel more beautiful naked than I do in a bikini. It's I. I think seeing other bodies helps that. I think the fact that I'm like, oh, I'm not unusual, I've got some scars, I've got, you know, all the different things, and you see the cellulite, you see the stretch marks, you see the sagging and you see the sun, damaged skin or whatever, and you realize like, ok, like we all have it.
Speaker 3:I think it's so, it's so lovely and so healthy and just so. It's such an honor to be able to see people as they really are. And I think it sets a tone. It sets a different kind of tone than just your daily walking in life. I think it already is setting a tone that it's like we're both coming up very vulnerably and if you're a caring person, like you're going to be gentler and you're going to be more sensitive to that Like you're, if we're both showing up in our vulnerability, it's like, ok, we're on an even playing field and I think people are going to show up in a gentler way. It's like there's like. It's like here, I am here's. It's like when dogs you know they show their belly. They're like it's it's and we love them for it. There's like a, it's a vulnerability because it shows that like you could stab me right now and I'm defenseless and it's up to you. It's like putting trust in someone else. I'm putting trust that you're not going to make fun of me, you're not going.
Speaker 3:Toism has been a very much a spiritual practice, like being able to navigate those nuances, those social dynamics, and see subtlety and see, like, a wide variety of colors in something that on the surface just looks one color. I love that. I used to do these little online puzzles and some of them are, like, really hard to see the difference between the two colors, but once you hone in, it's like, oh, you start to feel like a sense of power, like I can actually discern these two colors and I feel that with nudists I'm like and like, discern nuances and like, and so I it's helped me interpersonally in all these other ways that I never expected. Just, you know, you think taking off your clothes doesn't mean anything, but it kind of does, and so I can kind of feel people better. I kind of feel whether at. I kind of feel their body in it dynamics of feel where they're at. I kind of feel their body dynamics, I feel, if they want to have a conversation or they don't like. It's just there's all these, you know, these superpowers that come that maybe you don't realize and I think that's another thing.
Speaker 3:Like trusting your intuition, I think, is trusting that feeling of excitement and aliveness Again, that feeling of like if something is exciting and is curiosity, you know, inducing and intriguing, to me that means something and I think my conscious mind doesn't always know what that means.
Speaker 3:My conscious mind could have never predicted that I, you know, would meet Brenda and like you know all these things, like my conscious mind could not have said okay, you're going to meet these people and you're going to go to this place, like, and that's why I think this intuition is often shunned. You know it's considered, oh, it's just so silly. But sometimes you got to trust the feeling, got to trust the vibes. You know those mysterious vibes and the more you hone that instrument in yourself, I think you can get more of those. You start to see later, oh, that's why that was, I felt good about that, I went with it and it was a success. Or I felt weird about that and I turned away and now I see that it would have been a disaster. So that's why I see like nudism just seems so whatever. But it's actually like this whole spiritual practice that I've come to realize.
Speaker 1:I really love the thing that you said around people practicing nudism, people who are nude, showing up vulnerably, and what I'm hearing you say is it's almost like people get to show up with their masks off, like there's no external packaging. So you're not like in the Gucci or the Target or whatever else, there's just no packaging. It just is like. It's like you're showing up without the box. Right, it becomes an even playing field because there's no extra. What a gorgeous way to like be able to experience life. That's what came to mind for me, brenda.
Speaker 3:Yeah, there comes like a simplicity, because it's like you're seeing who people really are and then from then again, you can engage in consensual things. So it's like and when I say that I mean like anything, like I I'm a big believer in consent, any in anything. Like you know, if somebody's talking too long for me, like they won't stop talking, I feel like that's unconsensual, like we didn't agree that you were going to talk, for you know 45 minutes straight. And like I have to go, like I have an appointment, you know. So I'm very conscious of, like you know, consent in everything. You know people think of consent, you know, with sexuality or other. But I'm very conscious of consent with everything and I think, even as a coach, I'm always checking in with like hey, do you have 15 minutes? Hey, like I am very conscious of that. So I find that nudism applies in that way too, where people are making these agreements like we're agreeing to be vulnerable, and that's the, that's the container of consent. There. We're agreeing to like not laugh at each other and bully each other and things like that.
Speaker 3:But then it also kind of simplifies things because you see who people are and then sometimes again, living community, not everyone's for you, and that's another thing that you can take into your daily life. You know, in the workplace, you know anybody that you're interacting with, not everybody's for you, and it's nice to just know who people are and you can just be like you're cool, not my kind of person. And so that's another unexpected benefit that I got from this too, in the interpersonal dynamic realm, that it's like, ok, there's no bullshit. That it's like, okay, there's no bullshit, you see who I am, you see who you are. And if we're not for each other, we can just peacefully move away rather than force something, or rather than get into something and then realize, wow, that was a disaster. So that's another unexpected kind of thing that has come up.
Speaker 2:I love this conversation about vulnerability and trust. It's so vulnerable to show up without your clothes on and trust that no one's going to make fun of you and they're trusting the same with all of our body parts and our like you said scars and how breasts droop and bodies change and asses change, like all of that. Like we're all just showing up exactly who we are and there's such a trust in it and it is vulnerable and it kind of goes back to my first experience of just taking my shirt off. That first time and once I did it I was like wow, I just felt so free and there's such a freedom to it.
Speaker 2:I don't actually consider myself a nudist. I just like to take my clothes off and I like to wear not that much I don't. I don't actually like clothes. I don't find that they're comfortable. So I just love the option to do it or not and I find it really freeing. And also I just have to say this that I love swimming naked. It feels so good to just like be in the lake and just not have to wear those extra layers of bathing suit.
Speaker 2:I hate when I have to go to the beach and I wear a bathing suit. It's just physically uncomfortable for me at this point, and probably always so I think there's just this comfort, which is kind of ironic, because I think people think of nudists, they think of not being comfortable, but for me it's just like oh, I could just like relax and just be myself and just show up as I am. I don't have to worry about makeup, I don't. I don't do my hair half the time, or I do what I call lake hair. You know, I came out of the lake and now my hair is curly. There's a freedom to it that really adds to my life and brings a lot of joy and ease to my life and for me, over the five or six years I've been in this community, I have gotten more comfortable with my body and I think that's a really beautiful thing.
Speaker 2:Well, I'm really curious, because we're talking a lot about self-love and I don't know, I don't know, do you have to have self-love in order to be naked? But what do you? What do you think, linda, is the connection between nudism and self-love? What is that for you?
Speaker 3:I think you could, you could do any like there's going through the motions and then there's the like, actual connection to it. I think you could do any like there's going through the motions and then there's the like, actual connection to it. I think you can do anything from a place of disconnection or connection. So, yeah, you can go through the act of taking your clothes off and not be in a state of self love or love at all really. So yeah, I think it does kind of sensitize you towards, I guess, intent. You know you want to look at like, what am I doing? You know emotionally and how I'm feeling about it. What was the question? I love that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm just curious about what is the connection for self-love and nudism? Or maybe for you like how have you grown to love your body or be in acceptance of your body more by being nude?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I mean I, I think that, um, I was already exploring self-love, because you know, you hear you're supposed to, you know, boost your self-esteem and you're supposed to love yourself and all that kind of stuff. And especially if you've had instances where things kind of go wrong, you're like, ok, maybe I need to like work on myself in some way, nudism kind of it was all of it. So it's like I it's confronting. So it's like I it's confronting. So I, a lot of time I didn't feel very self-love. I'm like, oh, I don't like the way that looks. Or like, oh, I don't look like that person. So in those moments I don't know that I was feeling self-love. I I think it's, it's a workout, it's it's doing a potentially hard thing to eventually get to points of flow. So it's like eventually you get to a place that's easy, but it's not necessarily always starts out easy, and then, even if it's easy for a bit, it gets uncomfortable for another bit. So I think it's it's a teacher, it's a teacher, and sometimes it's it's not what you want to hear sometimes, but again it's, it's. It's it's showing you the truth, it's showing you where you're at, so it can be confronting.
Speaker 3:So some days I feel more self-loving than others, but at least I shift that. Let's see if I can. And then other times I would like to shift it and I'm not able to and I'm like, oh, now the self-love act is just being at peace with where I'm at. It's like in this moment I feel ugly and that's OK. So sometimes that's the shifting nature of self-love. Again, sometimes self-love is wearing more clothes.
Speaker 3:For some people, self-love is modesty, for some like. So I think it's always that moving target and that's why it can be, you know, confusing, because there is not a formula necessarily for it and your version of self-love isn't my version of self-love and it's changing in the moment and it's changing at different times in our life. Like, sometimes the most loving thing you can do is not show anyone your body life. Like. Sometimes the most loving thing you can do is is not show anyone, anyone your body Like. So that's the thing it's like. It always comes back to like what is your intent and being honest with yourself about where you're actually at, and like being willing to feel the truth of where you're at.
Speaker 1:So what I hear you saying, linda, is that nudity is like a teacher, that it just shows you where you are on the map, potentially, whether it's self-love or something else. It's showing you in real time is something activating, is something popping up, is something having you feel connected or disconnected, is something confronting and you get to then be with it. As you say, it's almost as if self-love is that moving target, or where you are in the day is the moving target, and you sort of get to adjust oh, can I be in acceptance here, or I'd like to shift this, how can I shift this? And you get to be in conversation with yourself around that, like, how can I shift this? Oh, I didn't feel so attracted today, or I didn't feel so sexy or pretty in that last interaction, or I didn't feel so myself in that last interaction. Or I didn't feel so sexy or pretty in that last interaction, or I didn't feel so myself in that last interaction, or I didn't feel honest in that last interaction. I'm just adding words here because I don't think it has to be, at least for me sometimes, when I'm checking in with myself and I don't feel air quotes like myself, or I don't feel so in approval. It could be like I wasn't so honest in that last interaction, or, oh, I didn't really answer that question to the depth so that I could have answered, or, oh, I didn't really connect with that person, with what was being offered as an opportunity for me. Why was I potentially withdrawn or leaned back as opposed to leaned in, like so many things, right? So nudity I hear you saying that nudism, being in the being, naked, being in the nude has really been a teacher here for you. It sounds so fluid and so beautiful. Thank you for sharing that.
Speaker 1:I would like to ask a different question around nudity as well, because we're coaches here. I know that you coach women, and so I'm not sure if you've heard this a lot or if you've experienced this in your own life, but I have had partners tell me oh, you look like you're so comfortable naked, and I don't know if I was always in that level of comfort I can't remember far back enough, right, but I do think that there is a level of discomfort from what I hear and see, with people around naked for men or naked for women. It could be in a sexual context, it could be just like in a living together context, like I hear often, people having intercourse in the dark or with lights off or lights smooth, or if they could have a filter in that bedroom, they would like an IG filter so that their body looks and feels different, so that they could be more in the mood in the nude or in the mood while in the nude. And what I hear you potentially saying and I'm not sure I don't want to put words in your mouth, I just want to hear are you in agreement of this Is that if you use it as a practice, that could potentially help you get even more comfortable in your own skin.
Speaker 1:Maybe today we don't use that filter. Maybe today we don't use the red light. Maybe today we do sunlight. Maybe today we do lights on Like what has that how has? Have you seen nudity for yourself or with others, and do you see this as an area of growth? Or yeah, what can you? What, if any, boxes can you fill in here?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I do like to use it as like a teacher and I like to do little experiments and because that's my joy, I enjoy that. I can't imagine a life where I'm not working on myself or doing personal development, like I just I think that there's so many people trying to change things that they can't control and it's like, ok, I'm going to try to change what I can control, so, you know, at least I can do that. You know I don't single handedly decide who the president is or if we have a president, but I can at least, you know, do my practices. I can at least, you know, put what I want to in the world. And I think like self-agency is so important for so many different dynamics in everything and in our happiness level to feel like we, to feel effective, to feel like we want to. We want something and that we're able to get it, and so that's the whole thing. Like with depression, like the depression is like you're wanting something and you feel like there's no way you could get it, so you just give up. And so the opposite of that is feeling like empowered, where you feel like I want a thing and I have some way of potentially getting that and for me it just feels like I can't imagine a life not doing personal development, because it feels like the only thing I can control and I feel like it just it's going to make everything better. It's going to make anything I touch better. It's going to make job stuff better. It's going to make family stuff better. It's going to make the way my attitude when I'm talking to someone on customer service better, like everything. So I can't.
Speaker 3:But, that said, I really believe in everyone's personal agency and I can if you don't want to work on yourself and you don't feel like you need to go for it. Like so I think there's so many different ways to live life and I think having more options is is better. So that's why I always love the idea of, like a clothing optional world, because it's just like I don't think everyone should be mandatorily naked. Like I think there's options and I think it's just like I don't think everyone should be mandatorily naked. Like I think there's options and I think it's just so nice to have like a full color palette of things to paint on your canvas. Like more colors the better, and maybe there's some colors that you think are gross and you never want to touch and you don't touch them, and that's fine. But I just think like personal agency makes everyone's life better.
Speaker 3:So that's why I'm very focused on like what is my intent? And then, likewise, you know people in the world like, think about it. Like what's your intent, what do you want out of the situation? How can you get more of what you want? And that could be as far as like okay, you know, for the next two hours I want to feel silly. Are you able to generate that feeling? Are you able to get yourself to that place? Maybe yes, maybe no, maybe a little bit, maybe not at all. And those are the kinds of experiments I like to do.
Speaker 3:So sometimes, yeah, I'm like I'm noticing, I'm feeling a little cranky. I would prefer to not feel cranky. Let's see how I prefer to feel and I play with it. I see what I can do. Sometimes I'm able to shift it, sometimes I'm not. Sometimes unsurprising things happen, whatever.
Speaker 3:So I think that that's kind of where I feel like self-love really is. I think, because it's not always just like I'm beautiful, like sometimes the most loving thing you could do, like it doesn't look like what you would think it would look like. Sometimes, again, it is putting on clothes, sometimes it is ignoring people, sometimes it's taking a nap, and so I think the more we're willing to be at peace with ourselves and what we're wanting in a moment, and feeling empowered to be able to have what we want in the moment, I just think that makes all dynamics better. You know, we feel more expressed, we feel more ourselves, we feel more in control of our own lives and we also let other people be what they want to be too. I I've experienced so much freedom in letting people be what they want to be, especially as a coach.
Speaker 3:I think there have been many times where I felt very responsible for other people's lives and I I've come to a place where I just see, like some people, like some people like messy, some people like clean you know, I've lived in a lot of communes and a lot of different communal settings. I've lived in a lot of different roommates and stuff, and I've come to this place where, like, some people really are okay with the mess, they feel like it's spontaneous, they feel like it's romantic, they feel like it's artistic. They feel like it's romantic, they feel like it's artistic, they feel like it's creative, they feel like, well, you know, I want to put my attention on other things, and then other people. It's like, no, I want the cleanliness, I want the clarity, I want organization.
Speaker 3:To me, having an organized space feels peaceful and it's like you're allowed to want whatever you want, but it's just that's. That's where I come back. Just come back to your intent. What do you want? And let's be clear about it, because then it's like if I find out that you genuinely love mess, I generally like clean, okay, then we're not going to live together. But then it's like peaceful, and then I'm in, I'm not mad at you, it's just like, okay, you're what you are and it's not wrong to be that way, and so I just feel like that's so good for like interpersonal dynamic or like conflict resolution and things like that.
Speaker 2:There's so much wisdom in that and so much acceptance in that. There's so much medicine for people to hear. Thank you so much for all of that. I want to, I want to go in. I have one more question, I have a few more, but I am so curious. I want to bring up families a little bit.
Speaker 2:You and I have spoken a lot about bringing our families into the community, not to not for long-term, that they have to be nudist, but just for a visit, just for fun, and we've talked a lot about that. And I think that's kind of taboo. Like going back to what we talked about earlier, like it's kind of taboo to even be naked, let alone with your family. Like why does anyone have to do that? And you certainly don't have to do it, but you've had this beautiful desire to have your family here and I would love for you to speak to why that's so important to you, because I think that there is like a beautiful vulnerability in your heart when you share about it and I just think there's some medicine in it if you're willing to share.
Speaker 3:Sure, yeah, I definitely have admired you and the way that you've been able to bring all different levels of family members to at least just see what the world is about. Again, you know, whether it's for them or not, you know, doesn't matter. Yeah, I think, because again I can feel that there's something valuable there. I've, yeah, I've been doing the nudist thing for I think it's now like 14 years and I've done different interviews. I've done it in different settings and people have talked to me about it and I see that the family thing is often something that people can't wrap their heads around. They're like all right, like if you're with your boyfriend or whatever, but family, that's a hard line, Like that. You know, I see that a lot, you know, Um, and I it just it's made me question like OK, why is it a hard line? What is that? And I will say that I think it is. It does bring up more emotion for me being if to be naked in front of family versus a stranger. But that's true with anything like I've performed and I sing, and I'm more comfortable singing in front of strangers than I am in front of people I know than I am in front of people I know. So it's similar in that regard. I think that, as a result of the way I was raised with my family, nudism was a solution for me and I'm curious to see that if nudism could be a solution for the people that raised me, the people that I grew up with and it might not be I was able to bring my mom. She loved it, she wasn't interested in getting naked, at least that time. But again, no pressure, it doesn't matter. But I think even just to have somebody see who I really am and what I'm so passionate about, just that alone I think is really meaningful. But I yeah, I think there's.
Speaker 3:I'm very interested to see what is really there about the family dynamic, Like what makes people feel, like it's so triggering or sensitive or even repulsive. Yeah, and it's research that I'm still doing. I mean, yeah, I think so far it's just my mom that's been, and there's interest from my other family members as well, but I think it's mostly interest just because they've known, you know they care about me and they know that I'm into this thing and it's an unusual thing. So I think you know, just at the basic level, like they want to show support for this thing that has meant so much to me. Whether it's for them, I don't know, but I I think that that I'm curious what's behind that taboo? I mean, I know that there's yeah, there's, like you know sexual implications and people are uncomfortable with that.
Speaker 3:And, and I think often you know family you're theoretically supposed to be the people that love you the most. Often it is not, Often it's not. So I think there's like, often, families, biological families are people that reject you the most and sometimes I think that they don't even realize that they are doing it. So they think they're being loving by worrying about you. They think they're being loving by being critical because they think they're raising you to be a better person. So a lot of the time it's well-meaning. So there's a lot that goes into family dynamics and I think I felt like courageous enough to explore that because I know that it for a lot of people that they couldn't and I'm happy to be somebody that is a stand for what's possible there.
Speaker 2:Yeah, thank you for sharing all of that. It is a whole different world sharing it with your family, and I have had family here as well and I love that you brought up your mother didn't want to take her clothes off and you don't have to, and I love that she had that boundary for herself and you're okay with it. I've had the same exact experience, where people come here and they're like I do not want to be naked with my family.
Speaker 2:And I think that's great. What a great boundary to have and what a great way to love yourself by knowing exactly what you want and don't want to do and then communicating it clearly. I was very happy to receive that, and we did not have to be naked. We just enjoy the space together and barbecue and have a good time. I think that's a really self-loving act to say, and I was happy to receive it.
Speaker 1:Catherine, I am just so grateful to have you and have you both have this experience in life with nudism, and it sounds like it has really been a teacher for both of you. I know Brenda said you had tons of questions. I don't know if you want to spit fire those out.
Speaker 2:I have. I just have one question, One question that I love to ask people on this podcast, which is what is the desire that you have, Linda, for yourself?
Speaker 3:I mean there there are so many um specific or general. There are so many specific or general.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it could be anything I like. While you're thinking, I'll just say you know we're talking so much about self-love and it's funny, we're Desire podcast but we just got into this juicy, juicy stew of self-love and I do like to bring it back to desire in some way and just get really curious about who we're talking to and what desire they have.
Speaker 3:So if you're willing to share, Sure, yeah, well, I've been working on sort of dismantling my own like codependent tendencies. And again, when I say codependent I mean like this, like people pleasing, basically, like this martyrdom, this kind of thing of like trying to put other people before myself, and that kind of a thing. So I think, yeah, in the next like, let's say, several months, even to a year, yeah, I want to. I want to find out a little closer who I am, like I'm very comfortable in the role of service and I want to see what happens if I like what's there if I'm not that, and I want to see what happens if I like what's there if I'm not that. So, you know, following desire for sure, but I don't know yet. I actually don't know what's there, but I want to commit to that desire and I want to see what's really there.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I'm at a point in my life where, like, I have accomplished a lot of the beautiful things I've wanted to and I feel just like more stable and more strong and, yeah, than than I ever have and I think they say that's true for women a lot like just getting more confident and, yes, like caring less what other people think of me. So I think I'm in a phase where I'm going to like start going more boldly for the things I want. But step one is like just seeing what's even in there. I think it's so easy for me to, very easy for me to just be like let's do what you want and like ride that wave and support you, and I love doing that. But I feel like, okay, I know that that muscle is strong and if I need to pull that tool out, I always can, like it's always there.
Speaker 3:But I want to see, like you know, left to lived in so many communities and communes where, like I try to see like how we can make everything work together. And now I want to see like, oh, like, what happens if I just actually like, like we were saying before, like totally unfiltered, go for exactly what it is I want and see what happens there. And I think I haven't fully let myself go there. So, yeah, I'm curious to see what that is too. Mm, what a beautiful desire. I'm curious to see what that is too.
Speaker 2:What a beautiful desire. I'm just hearing this desire to get to know yourself better, to deepen your own desires, even what is it that you even want? And I have no doubt that you, following your joy and moving into all the little discomforts of life that you love to do, that you will find them and you'll see little pockets of desire on your path. So so shall it all be, and even better than you can even imagine. Thank you, you're so welcome, and as we close out, I'm just curious if there's anything that you want to say, anything that was unsaid, that you're like. I want to tell everyone about this part, about nudism or self-love, or or really anything that was left unsaid.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think I'm just a big believer in like, personal power and cultivating a sense of like okay, I have a place.
Speaker 3:I want to go, you know, with my emotions or with my life and feeling like, what do I need to do to nurture whatever that is?
Speaker 3:And, even if it seems weird and unusual, like just trusting that there is a place for it, there is, there's a way for it to happen, and maybe it's not in the time you expect or maybe it's not in the way you expect, but basically, yeah, not giving up on it, those little, those little whispers and I think, if you're used to doing people pleasing, sometimes the people in your life are very loud about what they want and the voice of your own desire is quiet in comparison.
Speaker 3:So I think I was always following the loud voice and so when I start to listen to myself, it feels quiet. So just knowing, like being able to feel that difference and realizing that like, ok, this is a person that wants a thing, I'm a person that wants a thing. You're not more valid than I am, so let me start to see, give love to myself and see what's there. And, yeah, I think to me at this point it does sound like a quieter voice than people that are very clear on what they want, but I do have trust that it will solidify and I'll start to see trends as to the things I tend to like more.
Speaker 2:Thank you. I think that what you said is very relatable for women, so thank you for sharing that and the vulnerability to really share it. It's so relatable. Thank you so much, linda, for being here today and sharing your journey of nudism and courage and just your beautiful joy. We're going to put your Instagram and how to contact you in the show notes, but if you want to just say that right here, that would be great.
Speaker 3:So my name is Linda Viviana Barca, so you can find me on Facebook, instagram and YouTube if you look up my name, yeah, linda Barca or Linda Viviana Barca.
Speaker 2:Thank you so much. It's been such a joy to have you today, thank you.
Speaker 1:Thank you for joining us on the Desire is Medicine podcast Desire invites us to be honest, loving and deeply intimate with ourselves and others. You can find our handles in the show notes. We'd love to hear from you.
