60 ~ Self Love: Teachings & Takeaways Part 3

Imagine reflecting on your past without a hint of judgment. In this episode, we invite you to explore self-love through a compassionate lens, urging us to accept imperfections as part of our growth journey.

We share personal stories, wisdom and discuss the power of embracing discomfort to fuel transformation. Our conversation takes you through the intriguing idea of belly wisdom and the responsibility we hold for our desires. With the serenity prayer as our guide, we delve into the challenges of self-acceptance and hope for more profound insights into belly wisdom in future episodes.

Our dialogue extends to the societal pressures surrounding body acceptance and being comfortable in your own skin, spurred by insights from Linda Barsa, in our episode about nudism. We question the link between nudity, sexuality and shame, emphasizing personal choice over societal conditioning.

We also digest our first two male guests!  Ean Wood highlighted the universal challenges of self-love, regardless of gender, sharing his experiences of setting boundaries and embracing emotions. Peter Sweeney shared his embodied wisdom about the art of accepting all of your parts, and the power of speaking your true yes or no. 
 
Discover how the journey toward self-awareness and transformation is both a daily commitment and a universal struggle, as we stress the importance of leading by example and initiating change from within.

Chapters

• 0:08 Wisdom and Belly Wisdom in Self-Love
• 15:12 Embracing Body and Self-Love
• 26:34 Exploring Self-Love in Men

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:08

Welcome to Desire is Medicine. We are two very different women living a life led by desire, inviting you into our world.

Speaker 2: 0:16

I'm Brenda. I'm a devoted practitioner to being my fully expressed true self in my daily life. Motherhood relationships and my business Desire has taken me on quite a ride and every day I practice listening to and following the voice within. I'm a middle school teacher turned coach and guide of the feminine.

Speaker 1: 0:36

And I'm Catherine, devoted to living my life as the truest and hopefully the highest version of me. I don't have children, I've never been married. I've spent equal parts of my life in corporate as in some down and low shady spaces. I was the epitome of tired and wired and my path led me to explore desire. I'm a coach, guide, energy worker and a forever student, even after decades of inner work.

Speaker 2: 1:00

We are humble beginners on the mat, still exploring, always curious. We believe that listening to and following the nudge of desire is a deep spiritual practice that helps us grow.

Speaker 1: 1:12

On the Desires Medicine podcast. We talk to each other, we interview people we know and love about the practice of desire, bringing in a very important piece that is often overlooked being responsible for our desire. Welcome back listeners. Hey Brenda, hey Catherine, so happy to be here with you for our part three of this digestion, wrap up around the self-love series thus far, because I think you and I have even discussed that we're unsure when this self-love series is going to end or if it's just going to be a continuation process, unclear at this point in time. It's been really fascinating to see that self-love theme just arise as we were doing the Desires Medicine podcast and having our interviews and just seeing this whole branch just open up and say, hey, take a look over here. And as we've been excavating and just in honest inquiry, so many beautiful gems have come up. We've definitely discussed them in part one and part two and the last thing we were talking about in part two I think I was just sort of chewing on how uncomfortable it can feel when we're looking back at who we were and how tempting it is to say I should have X, y or Z fill in the blanks, versus being more loving and compassionate with ourselves and saying you know, the truth of the matter is, if I would have known better, I would have done better If I knew how to do it differently, chances are I would have known, I would have known and I would have done it that way. But it required that lesson so that I could now know how to do it better. The fumble was required in order for me to be able to hone something different. And then, looking at, well, if I have to look at myself in the past with this much compassion and love, to recognize and allow for the imperfection, the honesty of imperfection, to just be because we're human, not robots, just be because we're human, not robots and then look at, I could beat myself up right now, right, for not having the exact life I want. I thought today I would be fill in the blank and just saying, okay, this doesn't mean that I'm a loser, this doesn't mean that I have to hate myself or beat myself up here. I get to be loving and kind and say to myself okay, if this is really what I want, am I willing to pay the cost to become that person? Am I willing to be with the discomfort of potentially lifting weights if I want to be stronger or walking more, if I want to have more miles or steps for the day, or whatever it is that I'm looking to create, am I willing to pay the price to become that person and being willing to go through the discomfort? Because, if the truth is, if I was willing to pay the cost right now, I'd have the thing right now.

Speaker 1: 4:13

I don't have it because I'm not willing to pay that price just yet. I have to sort of lean into that discomfort, be willing to fumble, right. Be willing to do it imperfectly, be willing to show up again, and my word of the year right. Be willing to do it imperfectly, be willing to show up again, and my word of the year right Commit, consistently, recommit to the thing that I'm wanting to create. And with that, what we're technically talking about is wisdom, right, like the wisdom to know the difference, right. I'm thinking of the serenity prayer, right now.

Speaker 2: 4:45

I say this every morning.

Speaker 1: 4:49

God grants me, god grant me.

Speaker 2: 4:52

God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things that I can, and the wisdom to know the difference. Amen, I sit with that every morning and I don't just say it, and this is such a great tool. We could do a whole toolbox on this, but I really sit there and I just intuitively see what comes to me, what can I change, what can I not change, and what actions do I need to take and what do I need to turn over. So thank you for that, catherine. It's really beautiful. And you reminded me of two little quotes. One is Maya Angelou when we know better, we do better. So much wisdom in that. When we know better, we do better so much wisdom in that. And the other one is my father. He always said he had three friends coulda, shoulda and woulda. That's so funny, isn't that funny? It's just so great because, yeah, those three are just like piling around somewhere, and I love what you're touching on, that we are gaining wisdom, we're getting some wisdom over here, and I think it takes a lot of wisdom to really accept yourself where you are. It's a wise pose, right, it's a wise pose. So we are digesting our self-love series, are digesting our self-love series and thank you for opening us up so beautifully and I loved that spot we were in in the last episode and the next one is Elaine. We had Elaine come on to talk about belly wisdom.

Speaker 2: 6:43

This was a big one for me. I really wanted this and it took us a while to get her. It took us a while to even see who do we want to have on for this, to talk about this piece, because for me, belly has always been the time and everyone that I talked to so many women that I talked to wherever I go has an issue with their belly. And there's so much emphasis. I think it's one of those body parts in our culture that is really takes the brunt, like it really gets beat up. You know, be thinner, have a six pack. You know, the only time it's acceptable to even have a big belly is when you're pregnant and honestly, I've heard so many women, even when they're pregnant, hugely pregnant, be embarrassed. They're like, oh my God, my belly is so big. Be embarrassed. They're like, oh my God, my belly's so big. Your belly's supposed to be big. You are creating life inside of your womb.

Speaker 1: 7:58

Well, there is an actual human being inside of there. Usually, when a woman is very big, right, the baby is almost earth side, like fully developed, right. Like the baby has full 10 fingers, 10 toes, spinal cord, brain, eyes, eye, socket, mouth, nose, like it's a full human.

Speaker 2: 8:15

It's amazing.

Speaker 1: 8:16

It's amazing. It's amazing that I would have a full human in my body and I would look at myself and say, wow, I'm so big. It's like what.

Speaker 2: 8:27

It's actually a great example to show how distorted this is with our bodies. But it's a great example to show the distortion Absolutely. Yeah, I remember with both of my babies weeks, the first few weeks after they were born, especially the first time, because it was my first experience looking at my daughter and going that was inside of me. Are you kidding me, this human being? Oh my God. So of course your belly is big and yet so many people are so uncomfortable with it, and so this has been a really big journey for me and for so many women, and so having Elaine on to talk about belly wisdom was really a great turning point. It was really like a milestone for me personally to have her on and she was absolutely incredible. And one of the takeaways that I got which blew me away, which I did not know this, was kind of up there with Clara saying that sleep requires energy, that when you hold in your belly it actually compresses on and damages your organs. Yeah, Whoa, that blew me away. Did you know that?

Speaker 1: 9:52

I've had other teachers talk about that.

Speaker 2: 9:53

Yes.

Speaker 1: 9:54

Especially for the women who wear the waist trainers. Oh, like shapers yeah, Not shapers. Waist trainers. It's tighter than a shaper. It's not like Spanx, it's almost like a corset Tighter. Let's call it. You're for people that can't see. Brenda, you have to see. Brenda is like incomplete.

Speaker 1: 10:19

It's like I took the breath out of her body Like tighter, tighter, and it's often it's like a corset, so, but you know how bras have the clasps, so usually they're clasps like that and potentially it will have on top of the clasp a Velcro wrap or a zipper, but it's, or a zippered, and in the back it'll have a tie like a shoelace tie, just like a corset, and it is to train the waist to not hold fat in that arena. And I mean in some countries they even take out ribs to have a more shapely waist. We have definitely bought into small waist, so we really have.

Speaker 2: 11:08

I haven't heard of that before. Waist so we really have. I haven't heard of that before. Yeah, I went down a rabbit hole after Elaine and I made this like belly reel on Instagram because I was so excited about bellies. I was just so turned on by it and I was looking at pictures of women in corsets in like the 1800s, 1700s and their waists were like so small. And then it showed a picture of their organs, like what it actually looks like, like what your body is actually supposed to look like, and then what happens to your organs and your in your digestive system when you have this corset on to have this small waist, like it's a hundred percent unhealthy for you. And yet yet women did it. They did it because it was celebrated. They do it.

Speaker 1: 11:57

This is common now. I mean, women wear trainers when they have lipo on their stomachs and they have massages done in order for that area to continue to lymphatically drain because you know they've been kind of been. We don't have to go down that rabbit hole, but you're talking, you're talking about it as if it's something you know from the 1400s.

Speaker 2: 12:24

I just was today years old when I learned that I didn't know that there was a thing called trainers. I just thought it was like fashion shapers and Spanx and things like that. But that makes sense.

Speaker 1: 12:38

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 12:39

That that exists.

Speaker 1: 12:40

It's in line right With the culture it is.

Speaker 2: 12:42

It is. I think it's worthy of talking about, of all the things, the lengths that women will go through to to not have a big belly or have a small waist. And Elaine just brought in the wisdom of our belly, like that's our, it's our gut, it's our intuition, it's actually can be our guidance system in our life, and we're just constantly shaming it and finding it wrong. Well, how can we expect to follow our intuition and hear our inner voice if we're simultaneously shutting it down and shaming?

Speaker 1: 13:18

it. That's such an interesting thing, right. It's like how can a woman be soft, receptive and receiving if she's starving herself herself or if she's so controlled in her body image, controlling all the pieces and parts like where is the breath, when is the flow? And this is more of inquiry. I don't have an answer. In other, in other stages of my life, I've definitely been more controlled and appeared to be healthier. I don't know if I was necessarily air quotes healthier, but it's an interesting thing to be with. It's like a healthy inquiry what price am I paying for the image that I'm upholding Exactly? For the image that I'm upholding Exactly?

Speaker 1: 14:09

When I think about Elaine, I remember that one moment where she was talking about how your journey and my journey connect and how we both experienced change, and that was the thing that had us reevaluate our relationship with our bellies, and I was really grateful to her for that, for her to be able to see the thread that webbed between us. And the truth is that there's always going to be change, especially as we get older, and I think it's important for us to remind each other that our guts have information. I was just watching a reel the other day. I'm not sure how true or not true it is, but that our hair takes in information from the outside, and that that's why long hair was revered years ago for men and women, and that's why long hair was revered years ago for men and women. And I thought there are just so many things that we are not clear on as humans, as to what is optimal for us to be in this human body walking through the world we're so quick to you know. Have our military men have crew cuts right or have men be clean, cut and shaven? And in some religions, hair and beards are important. Again, not to go sidetracked on a different rabbit hole. Just want to introduce that. There are also Brenda's cracking up at me.

Speaker 1: 15:48

There are also some things for men to consider and be with. Do I want to have a clean, shaped head? Do I want to sport a beard or not? What makes me feel good? How do I feel better? Women, same same. Do you want to suck in your belly and squeeze your organs? Do you want to potentially allow your organs to breathe and have a higher likelihood of being tapped into your intuition? Is the six pack that important or can you let your potential baby pouch just be whether you had a baby or not, like having a softer, more womanly body If that's the one that you own. Not that that's what it has to become, but just can you be comfortable with whatever body you own and from there, from the place of acceptance, like when we talked about with episodes 50, no-transcript. This is what I think of when I think of Elaine Does anything else pop up for you.

Speaker 2: 17:15

I think that it's a beautiful inquiry and I highly recommend that people listen to episode 54, listening to Elaine, because she shares some really beautiful pieces about belly and the body and just somatic healing. It's just beautiful. I think it's important. I think it's an important conversation to have. I mean it makes sense also that this part of our body that we want to hide and shame and change to these great lengths would be the part of our body that holds so much wisdom and so much intuition. Of course it is. That makes total sense. So that brings us to the next episode. It's so fun to digest these.

Speaker 2: 18:04

Episode 55, where we talked with Linda about nudism. That was really a lot of fun. Linda is a friend of mine from the nudist lake community that I belong to and she just came on and gave this absolutely gorgeous transmission of just being right in your body, just being being naked and right in your body. And I think this episode maybe nudism isn't for you, and that's totally fine, it's not for everybody, but the episode I think goes way beyond nudism, while you do learn about nudism, and I think it's an interesting topic and she goes into it quite deeply and beautifully.

Speaker 2: 18:47

Um, it's really a transmission of being comfortable in your own skin, and that is not something that people are generally comfortable with. I mean, we don't go around naked most of the time, so I think that's normal. And yet there's something really healing about just showing your body and revealing it and learning to be comfortable in your own skin, like not wanting to hide it out of shame. Maybe you want to hide it out of privacy. That feels different, feels different and either way is okay, but I think that's an important distinction.

Speaker 1: 19:30

What came up for you. I love that distinction for sure. Nudity from a place of either choice, privacy, or because that's how you want to like. That's the edge you want to play on, like you and I, right, we use desire as sort of our compass. And what do we desire? What do we want to lean into? What do we want to create? Can we back ourselves there?

Speaker 1: 19:55

Linda brought in a completely different tool, which was who am I when I'm naked, and can I be in community while naked, and can I separate nudity from sexuality? And that in itself is such a huge practice, right, our society has it's. Everything is so conflated from. If you are showing skin, well, clearly, there's some sort of erogenous zone or some form of sexy something, something about to take place, right? Or you're seeking partnership or wanting to copulate. We just give it so much meaning, like the visual skin. And it's seen around religions as well, right, how women have to cover themselves up. I think it's confronting to ask ourselves how much nudity am I comfortable with? And is that the level of comfort because that's my choice? Is that my conditioned choice? Or am I ashamed, like you said, right, I guess ashamed would be same under conditioned choice, but it's a great inquiry for an individual to be with.

Speaker 2: 21:11

I think it's a beautiful inquiry and we also would love to hear your inquiries as well and I think that the shame and the embarrassment is a great thing to look at, because one of the things that we talked about in the episode with Linda was at the lake, where that is a nudist lake.

Speaker 2: 21:33

There's generations here, there's people who have houses, who grew up here as a child and now they're grandparents and they have the grandchildren here with them, so this is like a multi-generational thing and it's so innocent and so beautiful and so family oriented. And when you look at that, for me it just had me question my own beliefs about what's right or wrong and what's distorted, because I think that a lot of people could take a situation of a grandfather playing with young children on a dock in a lake being naked and totally distort that and make it into something negative or wrong or bad, and it's not. It's innocent and beautiful. And having had that experience of seeing it over and over again, it really just had me question my own beliefs and just be more open to, well, what is normal Right, maybe what we consider normal is not. Maybe everyone's normal is different and that's okay, and to maybe be less judgmental about it I think there it really does bring a lot of things in question.

Speaker 1: 23:01

I mean, we are living in an age sorry to be the bah humbug right where pedophilia is such a big thing. United States is one of the major purchasers of it. I don't want to get all political on it, and so, yes, when we think of nudity and we see children, we are in. I'm going to speak for myself. I would be in a more protective role in my mind. It would be very hard for me to be free, but if that were my environment, potentially I would have an even better radar because I would be able to see things from a different perspective versus for me right now, with my own conditioning.

Speaker 1: 23:46

I'm not part of a nudist community. I don't hang out with older people that are naked, with younger people, and so I would be just looking at everything with a suspicious lens. I would have nothing to compare it to. I would have no innocent marker to compare it to, because of my own lived experience, and so I recognize that often our society will just be a blanket no to something, so as to not to have to have that level of nuance, be in relationship with something to such a high degree, because it requires a lot of presence and acceptance, clearly in this one that we're talking about, I think you're bringing up a really important piece and there is a high level of nuance here, and I think it's just a good reminder.

Speaker 2: 24:45

I do have the belief that people are inherently good. I do have the belief that people are inherently good, and that little scene that I described is a great example of one. I think it just shows what's possible and that everything doesn't have to be suspicious and wrong and bad, and people should definitely have the level of vigilance that they're comfortable with. Of course, that goes without saying. We're not encouraging that here. We're just kind of discussing it and chewing on it because, honestly, that scene surprised me and it touched me so deeply, which is why I brought it into that episode.

Speaker 2: 25:22

So this whole time that we've been digesting all of these episodes we've been digesting all of these episodes somewhere in the background we started getting curious about men. We started wondering what does self-love look like for men, that there must be some overlaps, because we're all human but yet there must be some things that are different. That because they're men and being a woman, I have no idea what that looks like. And so we wanted to have some men on, and that took us a while to do. It took us a while to get some men on the podcast and yeah, yeah, and we had two. We had Ian and Peter on, which were episodes uh, 56 and 57. Those are the last few episodes before we started digesting and it was really fun to have men on our show. What were some of the takeaways for you for that, catherine?

Speaker 1: 26:29

Well, I remember it took us a while to narrow down and to choose men that we would love to interview. Up until now, we've had the luxury of interviewing people that we know and love and we wanted to sort of continue that, like, how can we have some men that we personally know and love or have crossed paths with, and that they're available, that our schedules can match all the different things that come when you're trying to schedule an interview and have somebody on your show, and that they would be a yes and they would be willing, right, that they would be able, willing, ready all the things to show up. And the curiosity was like, what does this subject look like for men? Is it different? You're right, like we're all humans, so there are some things that are going to be somewhat the same and some things that will be different. And also taking into account that we are not men, so it would be women interviewing men, and we don't know to what degree that would facilitate honesty or infringe. We just don't know. There's no way of knowing that. Nobody had to sit with a lie detector here, we all just had conversations.

Speaker 1: 27:41

And so Ian was the first guest, and I know Ian from a different community we have met in person. He's just such a solid dude person. He just such a solid dude. And when I was talking to him, that was one of the more potent episodes for me, because we had had so many interviews prior that things really started to clunk for me and make sense. It's as if I was talking to him and all of these rockets were just sort of going off. I'm going oh yes, that piece, oh yes, that piece. And I really started to get a physical, physical, visceral response in my body of I'm really getting what this self-love thing is. I thought it was sort of like romantic love when you think of you know the book titles like Be the One you Were Looking For, finding the one, be the match that you want to have, and I was like, wait a second. I'm hearing Ian talk and what I'm hearing him talk about I've heard all of these other women talk about as well.

Speaker 1: 28:45

I don't think these trials and tribulations around loving ourselves are so gender specific. I'm going oh, the act of setting boundaries, the act of saying what you mean and meaning what you say, the act of self-expression, the act of honoring your yes and your no, these are so important and these are the actions that have us feel that we're truly backing ourselves and have us feel that, I guess, have us feel and practice that we love ourselves. I want to say self-love is almost like a desire practice. It is a self-love practice Every day, every moment. When we have a choice point am I going to back myself? Am I going to make sure that my daily needs are met? Am I going to make sure that I'm going for my future goals?

Speaker 1: 29:33

This is all an act of love, versus how I used to think about it, which was, oh, it's like your heart swells for you and therefore, because you're so inundated with love, you are going to now take action. Just how you're so inundated with love when you see a baby who's incapable of taking care of itself but that would mean that I would be seeing myself as incapable we see ourselves as capable. We just say to ourselves oh, I don't feel like it, right? And then how do we stay in relationship with ourselves, going for what we want even when we don't feel like it? And that, for me, is, you know, like my word of the year consistently committed, just can I recommit and be the person that I need to be in order to have the things that I want to have. So, ian, was I mean? That conversation for me was great. What was it like for you?

Speaker 2: 30:28

I just think you gave the best digestion of that right now. I'm just so moved by what you said and I think you really nailed it and it's such a beautiful thing. I want to just reiterate what you said about that feeling of like, oh, romantic love I'm Versus mature love with another human being. I don't think I even ever thought of this until right now. You know we talk about that in relationship, but I've never thought about it with myself. That you know. I never thought about it in the terms of childish or addiction love versus mature love, and what you're talking about is mature self-love. You know that comes from the wisdom that we've been tapping into and, yeah, Ian really, I think, tapped into that and the thing that I loved about what he said was that for him, being a man, self-love was letting himself have his feelings, like really letting himself have his emotions. And Ian was really one of the lucky ones where he grew up with his father, when he was a teenager, being in men's circles I mean, that's a really pretty rare thing Again, more common now than maybe it's ever been, but it was still really hard for him. And this is similar to when we talked about Madison and, I think part one of this little digestion where she grew up having her mother cheer her on about her body that, yeah, you'd love your body, You're, you're perfect, just the way you are. And then it was still hard for her, Like there's no guarantees, it's. We still have our journey to go through, and I love how Ian talked about that.

Speaker 2: 32:22

And then I remember the question at the end asking him well, what would you say to women who are listening to this episode, who are going oh my God, my man needs to feel his feelings. He needs to if I want him to love himself. And now he needs to feel his feelings. What would you say to women who just want to go and tell their partners, their sons, their fathers, their friends, you need to go, feel your feelings. And he gave such a brilliant answer I thought, which was anything? Basically that you want someone else to do, use it as a mirror and do it yourself. We can't go fixing other people. It's not really fun. It doesn't even work. Honestly, If it worked, I think more of us would do it, and I have tried. I've researched that one thoroughly. So those are some of my takeaways from Ian.

Speaker 2: 33:15

And then we also had Peter, which was so great. I loved having Peter. He really talked a lot about accepting ourself and accepting all of the parts of ourselves and accepting all of the parts of ourselves and Ian touched on that as well and I love that. And I love how Peter brought in the piece about having boundaries and we had a really juicy conversation with Peter about our authentic yes and no and I love how he brought in that he said no to his partner about something and it was a hard thing to do and he did it anyway. And we talked about like the self-love and the self-commitment that it takes to honor your boundary in that way and being willing to show up for the discomfort of it and how loving talk about mature love, how loving that is for yourself and for the person you're in relationship with, to like be in truth and being willing to stay present for the you know, to like chew on it and find the spot that you can both be okay with yes.

Speaker 1: 34:34

I loved when he talked about that. I remember that too. I remember thinking this is great, like his nose great. I love hearing those from people because it makes me really trust their yes. And I want to go back and say I know I've said this in other episodes during the suggestion, even though it's a self-loving thing to do to honor our no. Honoring the no comes first. If there's any transmission that I want to give people here is the reminder that you're not going to feel your heart swelling for yourself and because of that you honor your.

Speaker 1: 35:16

Now. You commit to being someone who loves yourself. You commit to showing up for yourself. It is a conscious choice, just like if I were in relationship with other, with a romantic partner, and I commit to that person to staying in relationship and seeing honest and true to them. I recommit all the time same same with myself. Recommit to showing up for myself. That means that when I feel a no, that I say no, not because my heart is swollen in love, but because that's the thing to do, because I've decided this is the person I'm going to be. I take the action, I say no and then it has become a loving action Like love is actually an action in this case. That's the one of the thoughts that comes to me.

Speaker 1: 36:10

The other thing that you were, brenda, you just said when you were talking about reflecting back on the Ian episode, when you talked about Ian and Madison and how they both had great parents shepherding them in a different way that we don't often see. It's not so common, whether it's men's circles or really cheering your daughter on like, making her feel like she's amazing, daughter on, like making her feel like she's amazing and having her feel like her mom cheered her on, because that's the other piece. I'm sure there are plenty of women that have tried and daughters don't feel like they were really cheered on that. There are no guarantees of the outcome. Like only because you have a particular input doesn't guarantee the output, because life is just always fertile soil. There's always something that can bloom, flourish or something that needs to be tended to.

Speaker 1: 36:59

It's living matter. Life is living matter, we're living it. It's constantly changing. There's all this information that's coming from all different areas that's informing our every decision, our moves, different areas. That's informing our every decision, our moves, and it's not static right, it's like a living organism. We're alive. We have a zest for life. There are things and there are no guarantees. It is fertile soil. No matter who you are, no matter how perfect or imperfect your upbringing was. Everyone has trials and tribulations. It is like a human fact.

Speaker 2: 37:30

Okay, I think we've all been blessed by that gorgeous transmission. Catherine, thank you for dropping all of that wisdom. I hope our listeners really take that in as well. I know I'm going to be listening to that one again. I love me some Catherine magic.

Speaker 2: 37:47

And with that, that is the wind down of all of our self-love episodes. And if you've been with us on this three-part series of digesting our self-love episodes, thank you If you've only listened to this one. Thank you If you haven't listened to any of our self-love episodes. I want to invite you to, because I know I speak for Catherine in this that they are absolutely gorgeous. Her and I have personally transformed I feel, such a softness within, having been the shepherd, the co-shepherd, of these episodes. It's transformed me into a more softer, self-accepting woman, and so I invite you to listen to these If you haven't. It starts with episode 33, how do we Ourselves? And so far it goes to 57. We're not saying we're done, we don't know. We're just committed to following what's true here on the Desire is Medicine podcast and we thank you for joining us for this and all episodes and find us on Instagram. We'd love to connect with you and until next time, we'd love to connect with you and until next time, thank you for joining us on the Desire is Medicine podcast.

Speaker 1: 39:19

Desire invites us to be honest, loving and deeply intimate with ourselves and others. You can find our handles in the show notes. We'd love to hear from you.