Desire As Medicine Podcast
Catherine & Brenda interview people and talk to each other about desire. They always come back to us being 100% responsible for our desires.
Contact us by email:
desireasmedicine@gmail.com
catherine@catherinenavarro.com
goddessbrenda24@gmail.com
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@desireasmedicine
@CoachCatherineN
@Brenda_Fredericks
Desire As Medicine Podcast
65 ~ Goodbye to Mindreading: The Power of Guiding Your Man
What happens when you unlock the power of understanding your deepest desires and communicate them clearly? Join us as we navigate through the provocative notion that men are perceived as dumb and women as angry. Through these discussions, we emphasize the crucial role of expressing desires to avoid frustration and create deeper fulfillment in relationships.
Have you ever paused to consider what you truly want amidst the chaos of daily life? We dive into the importance of understanding personal desires, and how it can be as simple or complex as ordering lunch. Highlighting societal conditioning, especially the challenges women face in prioritizing their needs, we underline the power of honesty with yourself, and clear communication with your partner to foster deeper intimacy in relationships. By treating our partners as adults and owning one’s desires, we can break free from codependent relationships and embrace authenticity. Imagine a world where partners understand each other so well that interactions are filled with acceptance rather than frustration and judgment?
Communication is the cornerstone of deep, meaningful relationships, but what stops us from being truly honest? We explore the barriers and pressures that lead to suppressed wants and needs, particularly for women. This episode offers practical ways to express emotions honestly and build attuned partnerships. Please note even though we are using heteronormative language, the concepts and dynamics discussed are relevant to all types of relationships.
Whether through heartfelt stories of everyday acts of kindness or acknowledging emotions that are difficult to share, we provide strategies to strengthen connections. We invite our listeners to share their experiences in relationship and sharing your deepest desires. We love to hear from you!
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If you'd like to learn more about 1:1 or group coaching with Brenda or Catherine message them and book a Sales Call to learn more.
Email:
desireasmedicine@gmail.com
goddessbrenda24@gmail.com
catherine@catherinenavarro.com
Instagram:
@desireasmedicinepodcast
@Brenda_Fredericks
@CoachCatherineN
Welcome to Desire is Medicine. We are two very different women living a life led by desire.
Speaker 2:Inviting you into our world. I'm Brenda. I'm a devoted practitioner to being my fully expressed true self in my daily life, motherhood relationships and my business Desire has taken me on quite a ride and every day I practice listening to and following the voice within. I'm a middle school teacher turned coach and guide of the feminine.
Speaker 1:And I'm Catherine, devoted to living my life as the truest and hopefully the highest version of me. I don't have children, I've never been married. I've spent equal parts of my life in corporate as in some down and low shady spaces. I was the epitome of tired and wired and my path led me to explore desire. I'm a coach, guide, energy worker and a forever student.
Speaker 2:Even after decades of inner work, we are humble beginners on the mat, still exploring, always curious. We believe that listening to and following the nudge of desire is a deep spiritual practice that helps us grow.
Speaker 1:On the Desires Medicine podcast. We talk to each other, we interview people we know and love about the practice of desire, bringing in a very important piece that is often overlooked being responsible for our desire. Welcome back everyone. Here I am with the lovely Brenda and we are excited today to kind of talk about the little behind the scenes of what's been going on here at the Desire as Medicine podcast. So we had our whole self-love series. I'm sure that we have not fully put that to bed just yet. We had our digestion and boy did we have our digestion. We had like three episodes of digestion.
Speaker 1:Brenda and I really went in and gave you all our favorite nuggets and sort of our takeaways from that series. It was just a pleasure to record. I can't say that enough. It was really eye-opening and heartwarming. And one of the things we looked at was in the digestion was how, when we are truly loving ourselves and that basically means we are exhibiting behaviors that back ourselves, exhibiting behaviors where we are really managing our inner resources well, we are well-resourced, moving forward. That really propels us so that we can go for our desires. It helps us back ourselves ourselves. And after the digestion we recorded enough, just like when that little buggy feeling taps you on the shoulder and says you know what you should be happy Like, this is good, you don't need more. Or, oh the reverse I want more because not because I need it, but because all my friends have it. So I want the thing that all my friends have right. And how can we navigate this maze within ourselves? How do we know when something is enough? How do we know if we actually want more? What is that little whisper? And we had this gorgeous episode where we talked about loving without interfering, and that is such a beautiful way to not squander your resources. The more we can stay in our own lane, just be responsible for ourselves, be the example for others, not taking over responsibility in someone else's life, the more energy we have.
Speaker 1:We also interviewed or I would say, brenda and I interviewed Badansky, or I would say Brenda and I interviewed Badansky. And in that conversation with Badansky he said two I have two quotes of his that really kind of threw me even as we were in the conversation, and one was men are romantic and women are animalistic, and I was like, ooh, what does that mean? And he basically said the more a woman can be in her animal, the more it calls out the man's romantic. It's sort of like an infinity loop, right, one gives into the other, and the less she's in her animal, well then, the less he is in his romantic. And I'm going to say the next quote, but please don't take it offensively. And I'm going to say the next quote, but please don't take it offensively. It is meant just to point something out. And he says I'm just quoting him. He said men are dumb and women are angry. And Brenda and I were like whoa, that's big. I've definitely been angry.
Speaker 1:When Brenda comes on, I'm sure she can share how many times she's been angry. Like when we're angry, we can just get resentful so, so quickly. And we wanted to come on here today and talk about what it is like, how good it can be when we lean into our desires and we can let our partners know what we want so that they can be successful, they can see us happy, versus when we don't tell them what we want, because we don't even know what we want, because we haven't even taken the time to figure that out for ourselves. We're in the dark, they're in the dark, we're frustrated, they're frustrated, and just mayhem continues. I will pass over the mic to Brenda. What comes up for you when we're, when I say all of this?
Speaker 2:Hmm, that's a great digestion of the last few episodes. Thank you for that. Yeah, that really those, those comments that he said, those quotes were really powerful and true, like they landed for me as true. And when you're talking about letting our partners know what we want so they could be successful with us, so they could win with us, we want our partners to win and also we want everyone in our life to win. We want our friends to win, we want our family to win, and I think how the people in our life are reacting to us is really a reflection of ourselves. And when we know what we want and we take care of ourselves over here, that's going to be reflected in our relationships. That's going to be reflected in our relationships. And we don't tell, let's just say, our romantic relationships, if we don't tell our partners what we want, how are they supposed to know? How are they supposed to know and we talked about that with Badansky too you know, knowing what you want like knowing understanding your own body, so that you can tell your partner how you want to be touched.
Speaker 2:Well, that's true in the bedroom and it's also true outside of the bedroom as well. You know, it could come down to something very simple as where do you want to go out for dinner tonight, or what do you want to do today? You know, if you're listening, just ask yourself that right now, is that something that? Do you know what you want to do today? Do you know where you want to go out to dinner next? Do you know? Think about that for a second, like did it pop into your mind and then are you willing to share it? Look, when you have that information in your mind or in your heart or wherever it lands in your body, what do you do with it? What do you do with that information? Do you keep it and don't tell anyone Big secret? Do you expect your partner to try to figure it out? Do you expect them to know? Well, I'm just going to tell you that people are generally not mind readers and men are not mind readers. They're not going to know. So if you're not telling them, or if you're keeping it a secret and expecting them to know, you're going to be disappointed and newsflash. So are they. So if you know where you want to go out to dinner or what you want to do today, what do you do with that information? I think that's a really great question to ask yourself, you know, because think about the path of not telling your partner that thing, right, think about the trajectory of that, all the things that could happen, and the fight and the annoyance.
Speaker 2:And you didn't. Even I wanted to go to Italian. You know I wanted Italian. Well, how I didn't know you wanted Italian. Last week you said you wanted Indian. There's no way he could win. And then all the frustrations and the domino effect of that as compared to hey, honey, you know where I would love to go to dinner tonight? Italian, I've been really craving sausage and broccoli rabe. And then he's like, okay, he's like in Google researching all the great Italian restaurants nearby. Because what I found on my journey and this really surprised me men want to give you what you want. She's laughing. Men want to give you what you want. They do, but the problem is that we don't tell them what's coming up for you, catherine.
Speaker 1:I'm just wondering if you would agree. I would say that the times that I have not told my partners I fall onto the camp of I most likely didn't know, like when I know I share but it has to be, I have to potentially already be upset or sort of crossed or twisted to not share because maybe I'm already at that place, as Badansky says, I was already angry so I wasn't in the mood to share. Maybe I'm already resentful, I'm not in the mood to share, but for the most part, if I'm not sharing and I'm like I don't know, I don't know it's because for X, y or Z reason, I wasn't a hundred percent sure, and there's no, and that could be for many reasons. Actually, today I was with a friend and I was asked I'm like I should eat. I hadn't eaten and I was feeling into what was I in the mood for, but there were so many things occurring at the same time. Like I was, I was in between calls. I had like 20 minutes to my next call. I had wanted to make two more stops or handle two more things before that call happened. That was no longer going to happen. I think as women sometimes we have our day way too packed is no longer going to happen. I think as women, sometimes we have our day way too packed, there's just too much in it, and at that moment could I really feel into what I wanted? So this is really interesting in hindsight, a past version of me and now when I say past, I'm thinking maybe 15, minimum of 10 to 15 years I would have been like, oh, whatever's fine, like I'll have whatever. I actually now, today, I give myself many props. I give myself many, many little stars. You did a good job, catherine.
Speaker 1:Today I said, hang on, let me feel into, like, what do I really want? And I was feeling into the different things that I wanted. Because of my time constraint, I could not get into all the things. Like I was thinking, maybe I could have sushi oh, wait, a second, I'd have to wait for the rolls. Maybe I could go get like a bagel Wait, I'm not really sure it was raining today as well. I'm not really sure if I'll be able to park right there.
Speaker 1:There were all of these things that were passing my head, as it usually does for women. You start thinking about is this convenient? Is there enough space, is there enough time? And I said you know what? I can just grab pizza right here. We happen to be in front of a really great pizza place. It wasn't exactly the spot, but when I say the spot I mean it wasn't. Truthfully. I wasn't able to hit the arrow to my desire in that moment, but it was good for what I needed. It was one of my favorite pizza places. In addition to, I would be able to make it in my house in time for the next call and I wouldn't be rushed for the rest of the afternoon.
Speaker 1:But even giving myself that three to four minutes, that five minutes of just being with and pausing to feel into what I wanted, is success. I think it's hard to give that to ourselves. So what comes up for me is I think often we don't tell people because we don't know. And often we don't know because we are just. Our lives are so packed that if we haven't taken the time to think about where are the date spots that I want to go to, what movies would I like to go see with my girlfriends, what are the things like? We don't give ourselves the time to really be within plan. It's hard to share. That's what comes up for me.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I totally agree with that and that's a great point. Sometimes you just don't know. Sometimes you legit do not know, and I love that you gave yourself a couple of minutes to just feel into what you want. I think that's a great practice to do, to just say, hold on, I just need to feel into what I want. Like I just want to give everyone permission to do that. You could even do that in conversation. This is a little bit different. You could say, hold on, I'm not really sure what to say next. That was one of my, that's been one of my life-changing tools. You don't have to just keep going and keep going. You can pause.
Speaker 2:So I also want to tell our listeners that Catherine is excellent at saying what she wants and needs. I don't think that's your conditioning. I don't think that you have that particular conditioning that you're, that you don't say the truth or you don't say what you want. I think that you happen to be really good at that and you hold the pole for that. Like I love that. I love that about you. I have had that conditioning and my lineage has that conditioning of what I want. My desire is so buried down below that, like you need like a giant shovel or some kind of a truck with that. You know the big scooper thing to like get underneath to what the desire is and it's just. You're just not going to say it. Either you don't know or you know and you're not going to say it.
Speaker 2:And the other reason that women don't say it is because they're so busy taking care of other people. Like, what you want and what's good for you means that you have to take up space and it means you have to claim your desire and you have to share it with your partner or your family or whoever. And, like you said, that's not always convenient and I think we're conditioned to make it so. It's convenient for other people instead of for ourselves. And I think that this is a great place where men lose.
Speaker 2:Men lose out when women don't share their desire. We think that it's more convenient for them. Oh, I'm just making it good for him, but I don't think that makes people happy. I think it's boring and I think we can feel when we're codependent and taking care of other people. No adult male needs to be taken care of in that way by his woman. Treat your man like a grownup and treat yourself like a grownup, adult behavior is what do you want and can you say it? Now? I'm not saying that's easy at all. It's definitely not easy, but it's important. Men like to know our desires. They want to fulfill it for us, and if we're willing to own it, then they can fulfill it, and I think that makes for a more fulfilling life than caretaking other people or just not knowing.
Speaker 1:I think you made a great point. I think that it's true. Women may not, or potentially or most definitely don't, share their desires, for different reasons. Maybe some women have their desire and it's buried under the ground. Maybe some women have desires that they feel's buried under the ground. Maybe some women have desires that they feel really it's too big of a desire or how can I ask for that? Or uh-oh, he's going to think I am insert the blank, needy, greedy, anything else that's derogatory for asking for X, y or Z and therefore don't. So maybe there's shame or guilt, so it's buried.
Speaker 1:Or you have some feelings around saying the truth of what you want, or you fall into where I fall most of the time, which is I can be just too occupied and so it can catch me off guard, and then I'm sort of like I can't touch it just yet. And it's true, most of the time I can touch it. If I'm moving slower, it's a lot easier for me to feel into what is it that I want? There's something so gorgeous and generous to the nervous system about time and space. It's just, I mean, where you can just take a deep breath and like, for example, if the example with the pizza today. If I would have had like an hour and a half until my next appointment, until my next call, if I would have had all this spaciousness, I could have potentially been like, oh, and right now I'm feeling into what would have felt good in that moment. This is so wild. I probably would have been outside, enjoyed the crisp air, enjoy the rain, the rainy rain, maybe walked a block or two and just felt into what would I like to have right now. There would have been so much space for my system to just take a breather, relax. I had been going since seven or so to just sort of pause and be with.
Speaker 1:Oh, what am I in the mood for? Time is our friend in those places, and it doesn't have to be a long amount of time. It doesn't have to be 90 minutes, which would have been my desire this afternoon, but even five minutes, even the five minutes that I was able you know the few minutes that I was able to. You know the few minutes that I was able to give myself so that I can come to somewhat of a conclusion of what I wanted to get close enough to the spot that would have been satisfying for me is a big deal. Like I would love to invite everyone to do that, to just take five minutes, take a breath and just be with what would light me up here, like what would be really good for me to enjoy, like what do I want to do? And to check in with ourselves often around those things, so that we can share them, not just with our romantic partners, but with partners, with friends, with girlfriends.
Speaker 1:Like people want to know what you want to do. Nobody wants to go with you. It's so funny. I'm thinking of I don't like television musicals, I like musicals in person. I can't remember what movie was playing and I had I think it was a family member say, hey, do you want to go to such and such?
Speaker 1:And I was like no, she's like you say no so quickly, with no drama. I'm like I really don't want to go. I'm like I'm so not interested. And do you even want me to say yes and go and just be unhappy and miserable? Like nobody wants that? I want to be the best company. I want to be honest. I honestly want to be somewhere that I really want to be, so that people know oh wow, catherine really wants to be here, she really wants to engage in whatever it is that I was invited to. Our yeses are so important, our no's are so important and what we want is so important because we get to share that with others and people who want the same things that we want. Right, they get to meet us and there's just so much joy there. I mean, I would love for women to be happier and less angry. Right, brenda? What do you think?
Speaker 2:Amen and hallelujah, then would men be smarter.
Speaker 1:I think they'd have like PhDs on their women.
Speaker 2:Ooh, PhD on your woman. Ooh, do you think women could handle that?
Speaker 1:I think it would be confronting.
Speaker 2:It's a lot to have.
Speaker 1:I think it's a lot to have and it would be really hard to hide and what we go ahead.
Speaker 2:I was just going to say what came up for me right there when we were talking about that. If women, if a woman, had her man having a PhD on her, what would she talk to her friends about? What would she complain about? You're funny. Well, I think that's true. I think that I don't know. There's many different kinds of circles I used to travel in years ago were husband complaining, children complaining, circles where it was like guess what he did last night, oh my God. Can you believe that? It's nobody saying oh my God. Well, some people do. But I think generally women are more comfortable with complaining, but it is possible and it is wonderful. And sometimes you do hear women talking about guess what my man got me, or guess what my man did for me, or my partner.
Speaker 1:What I thought of when I said our men have a PhD on us, I thought about friendships. I definitely have friends and I definitely know women where they really know me and I really know them. And I would piggyback on that episode of, you know, loving people without interfering. I think that if we had PhDs on our men and our friends and they had PhDs on us, there would be a lot more peace because we wouldn't be trying to change each other or have these expectations that were so unmet, because people could see our trajectory right. Like when I see someone about to have their train wreck. Like when we're talking about loving without interfering, when I'm really honoring them and I know them, I'm like, oh wow, this train wreck. Like once they get past that, that lesson, that's such a great lesson, like that's so good. I can't wait for them to be on the other side of that, like I don't want to interfere with that. I definitely want them to, you know, get gain that level in the video game.
Speaker 2:It's really expansive view on relationship and that was a really good she's laughing. It's a really great episode on letting people that you love have their natural course in life, that the people you love have their own God. They have their own path, they have their own journey in life, and can you just let them have it? And I really love what you said just now, that if we had PhDs on each other, well, wouldn't life be great? Well, how do we get that? And this comes full circle to what we were talking about earlier.
Speaker 2:I think a lot of women expect their man or their partner to know what they want in life in the bedroom, going out to dinner, all of that. And a common complaint that I hear people saying is I want to be seen. Nobody sees me. My family doesn't see me and you know, if that's you, then the antidote it's not on other people to see you. That comes from you. You need to be able to have the willingness to reveal yourself, to really say what you think, what you want. What better way to reveal yourself than through your desires? I mean, we generally don't talk about desire.
Speaker 1:I want to say. I want to just interject here and say you nailed it. Yes, yes, yes, yes.
Speaker 2:Oh good, Tell me what I nailed it.
Speaker 1:Yes, yes, yes, yes. Oh good, tell me what I nailed. You nailed it. It's like how to get PhDs on each other.
Speaker 1:One active listening right? We definitely want to listen to our partners. What are they really saying? And as we're listening to them, are we really hearing what they're saying, or are we hearing our own filter, through our own fear? Or are we hearing something that they're actually not saying? It's almost underneath?
Speaker 1:We call that like the secondary conversation, like what they're not saying out loud, but we're really, oh, I'm really gathering that this person is telling me With words. They're telling me this and without words, this is what I'm hearing. And then I get to say I hear you're saying X, y or Z, but it feels like you're saying A, b and C. Is that true? Would you like to expand on that? I would love just clarity. You don't have to go deeper, right, like allowing the person to know I hear you and if you're not ready to say the whole thing, only because I spied it, if you're not ready to say the whole thing only because I spied it doesn't mean you have to go any further than just saying oh yes, I think what you're saying, like you're touching on that. So active listening and the other right, like intentionally sharing, intentionally revealing of ourselves.
Speaker 1:I would say that in my friendships I have definitely gorgeous friendships, brenda I would consider you one where I do think we have a particular PhD-ness. I think that there are times when we can sort of sense oh, this isn't really the real thing that we should be discussing right now, something bigger is happening. Or oh, I know we were going to record, but maybe this is just a cry day and not having it be more than that. Or hey, like today, for example, we were going to record a while back and we were sort of taking, handling some things behind the scene and I was saying to Brenda something like something I can't put my finger on something, and she gave me the space to do that Like, she gave me the space to meet her, she was ready, I needed some time and she gave me the space to do that.
Speaker 1:I'm assuming she knows me well enough to know. Oh, this session will be a lot like. This recording session will be a lot smoother if Catherine, just like, takes the space she needs. I don't know, but that comes from us knowing each other right. This is a great example of in a friendship, like in a colleague relationship. I mean, we're partners in podcasting, right? This is a way of relating. We have to have a certain relationship for things to go smooth when we're basically recording our interactions and sharing them with the world.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. Yeah, you bring up some really great points and you were willing to take up space and say I just need some time, right, and you know, it did come up for me oh, we're gonna go late or it's not gonna, we're not gonna have enough time, like those things did come up for me, but I just noticed them in my brain and I just handled them. I was like, okay, what can I do to take care of myself here and give my friend all the time that she needs? And so I just did a whole bunch of stuff. That was great. I texted her. I was like I'm doing cool shit. She was like, okay, I've got my dishes washed. I just did a whole bunch of really great things.
Speaker 2:So it's you know and I know and I trust in all of relationships and I'm grateful that you took up that space that when people that I love give themselves what they need, I just want them to have it, and because that makes our relationship better, I love you, I want you to have what you need. What am I going to rush you and say, no, we have to record now. It just doesn't work that way. But we do that. We do that with people that we love. We do that with our kids all the time. No, you can't have five more minutes, we have to go now. And then your kid is screaming out the door and nobody's having a good time anymore.
Speaker 2:So you know, it's really important to take care of yourself so that you can give your partner what they need. Let them have what they need, I should say, and like, let go of your own agenda. And also trusting the process, just really trusting the process. And when you're in a process of creation and all of our life is a creation we're talking way beyond this podcast. Here it's the feminine, is a creation. We're talking way beyond this podcast. Here it's the feminine, it's creation. It's wild and free and it's it's not necessarily linear and you can't always schedule everything. So we need to trust the process.
Speaker 1:I love that you trust the process and I'm really grateful that you gave me the space that I needed today. I love that we have the PhDs and we have somewhat of a template of what it looks like, right, a template in so many different areas. A template in trusting, having the faith that, no matter what it's going to work itself out one way or the other, it doesn't have to look a particular way. I remember being a teenager and people being like come on, come on, don't you want to come? Come on, come on, don't you want to? X, y or Z, and there was just so much more of a rush to get to the next thing. And I think that at this point in my life as an adult, there's always so much on the plate that I'm constantly looking at what else can I say no to so that I could be more resourced, so that I could touch what I want.
Speaker 1:I think that's the real takeaway today. It's how do we make other people successful? By letting them know what we need, and then we have to tackle whether or not we have buried desires that we can't touch. Maybe we have to tackle some conditioning that has us not want to say what we need or not, has us want to potentially abandon what we need because we want to just show up, like, for example, if I had that kind of conditioning that I just showed up at the exact time that we were going to record and I would be potentially tired and resentful versus just asking for what I needed, which would be the actual, more loving thing to do for both of us. Because then when we're actually recording, it's like oh, we're here, 100%, nothing else is in the way, just us ready and willing to show up. And that's when things, that's where magic and God comes in the room.
Speaker 1:When there's space right, when we're grounded, when we're open-hearted, when we're curious, when we're ready to engage in what's happening in the moment, where I can actively listen to what you have to say and you can actively listen to what I have to say, then I get to intentionally share with you and you get to intentionally share with me, and then we're really getting to know one another. We get to know how to help the other be successful with us, and that's really what it's about, like, that's how we can help our partners win and be successful. That's how we can help our loved ones, our friends, our family. I mean this is our friends, our family. I mean this is, it's so intertwined.
Speaker 1:I mean we have this podcast, it's desire as medicine. We get to lean in to something, not knowing what's going to be attained, loving the person that we're created along the way, and as we lean into what we want, we get to know ourselves better and we get to share ourselves with the people that we love and hopefully experience the same in return. Hopefully we're also able to engage with other people that also know what they want and what they need and they also share with us and we get to sort of have a gorgeous ping pong back and forth and the goal being right to be able to live in a world where, if I go back to Badansky, where women are in their animal and men get to be romantic, and where women are not angry, they're happy and women and men get to have PhDs on their women Like that would be a gorgeous world. I agree. I guess you would need a gorgeous world.
Speaker 2:I agree, I guess you would need a PhD on your for yourself first. Right, you'd really need a PhD on yourself first. And this really goes back to all the things that we've been talking about. That started from the Badansky episode of you know, training someone's talk to pleasure your body by knowing your own body first, knowing what you like and in and out of the bedroom this is in the bedroom and out of the bedroom. So you really have to know what it is that you want. You have to know, maybe, where you want to go out to dinner or what you want to do today, and then you can share it with someone. And, that being said, I love that we touched on. Maybe you just don't know. Sometimes you're not sure and sometimes I will say to my partner you choose where we go out to dinner, I just really don't know. And I do that often and I love it and it works because he knows me.
Speaker 2:I also own my desire and it works because he knows me. I also own my desire. Very often I'm like let's go get pizza or let's go to the diner, or oh, I really want Indian. So I feel fairly confident in owning my desire. So sometimes I'm like honey, you pick. But that can't happen all the time. I can't always say to him you pick. Then it's not balanced and I'm not owning my desire and it's very easy to fall into that.
Speaker 2:And the other thing I wanted to just go back to briefly is you talked about the secondary conversation, like the thing that's happening underneath, and this is really a place where we can have our partners win with us too, because very often our partners will say honey, for example. Honey, are you mad? Are you upset about something? We're like no, everybody in the room knows that she's mad, and so what we're doing is we're training our partner to be wrong. In that moment we're not giving him information. So if he's like is something wrong, are you upset? It's so uncomfortable and so inconvenient, but what's happening is that he's actually tuning into you in that moment and can you give him an accurate reading, let him know that he actually has the pulse on you by saying you know you're right, I am a little upset about this thing that happened about four hours ago or yesterday. And then in that way we train our partners to attune to us, and we want that. It's not convenient. It could be like very vulnerable, because then somebody is kind of seeing you in a place that you potentially might want to hide, potentially might want to hide, but it makes for, I think, fulfilling relationships. And I just want to tell this little brief story before we close, because it's exactly this Last week I got back from a retreat and then I wasn't feeling well and my partner went to this local place and he got all this soup and chicken and string beans, all this wonderful food.
Speaker 2:I was like wow, thank you so much, this is so great. And he said to me I could tell that you didn't want to cook this weekend and I love to cook, I really love to cook. I just baked bread today and he said I could tell you were a little tired, you weren't feeling well. I could tell that you don't want to cook for a few days, so I went out and I got all this food so you don't have to cook all weekend. And I was like, wow, that was really sweet.
Speaker 2:And I have to say I've been training him, teaching him on how to attune to me. This has been a long game. This has been four years of me teaching him how to attune to me and it's really working and he absolutely read me right and we had wonderful food for days. It was just so delicious. So I really wanted to share that story as hope and possibility and it really enriched our lives and every time we ate that food we both felt so good about it and he was so proud. He was like a peacock with his feathers out. He was like I knew that you didn't want to cook and we were both really happy.
Speaker 1:That is the best story. I love that story. It's such a great example of what it looks like on the other side when you are continuously letting your partner know what you want and how you feel like, how you're feeling right. And the interesting thing about that is, miss Brenda, sometimes people feel very confronted. So somebody your partner says are you mad? And maybe they sound mad when they ask you if you're mad. And some women are like they're so, like they don't know what to say, right, so I'm going to.
Speaker 1:You can chime in if you can think of some, but I would share that some of the things I say are, actually I am not okay, but I'm not ready to talk about it. Or actually I am pretty upset but I can't talk about it in a clean way just yet. I need to get to the other side before I can share about it. And I have had partners that have a problem with the space and the time because they want to like fight now. And I always say, oh, we can fight now or we can talk later. Always say, oh, we can fight now or we can talk later, because really if I talk right now, I'm not really going to be talking. It's not going to be any PhD in any direction. There's going to be a lot of slinging going down from both sides and, yeah, that's one way of doing it, but it doesn't really bring connection and I have had to tell some of my partners, like, explain to them. I understand that you want to fight and sometimes people fight and then they make up. But I would love to sort of not have to make up because I said something that I didn't say. I would like to not have to clean something up because I went way too far. I would like to stay in connection when I'm regulated and able to stay in connection. Now, this is a higher level game. I would say that it's, even if you're brand new to sharing and active listening, intentionally sharing. Hey, yeah, I am upset and I'm not ready to talk about it. You know we're good, I'm just not ready to talk about it.
Speaker 1:Often, men and friends actually just want to know that you're still in connection and that nothing has been severed. That's usually the question when they're asking hey, is something happening? They're more like are we breaking up? Or, if it's a friendship, like, are we never going to see each other again? Like, is this our last conversation. People usually want to prevent that right. They don't like the feeling of that loss and usually if it is a severance, I'm not going to be telling someone, yes, I'm upset, but I can talk about it later. I would just be like, oh yes, there's no turning back from here, like I just don't see it. I don't have the capacity for turning back from here. This is it Like this. Basically this is a life sentence, it's a wrap. Basically, this is a life sentence, it's a wrap.
Speaker 2:So that's how it would be for me. Yeah, what I, that's brilliant, and what I generally would say, in addition to those options that you gave, is I would say something like oh, I don't want to really admit this, but you're right, I am upset and either I'm ready to talk about it or I need a few minutes or I need a day. You know, I usually just that's a very me thing to say I really don't want to admit this, but you're right.
Speaker 1:I am upset. Thank you so much for sharing that, brenda. I love that. I don't think I've ever had that sensation in me of being like I don't want to admit this. I probably have so much fire in my body at that moment when I'm upset that just getting the words out, you know, just in a very loving way, is sort of what I look for in those moments, because I try not to be cutting or to disassociate or things like that.
Speaker 2:But yeah, I think you're really good at that part. I think that that's something that's really good for you and mine. I don't want to admit this really goes to the conditioning that I had of like burying this and pretending it's not true, like that's where I came from. So we all have like different places that we come from and like how we would say it would be particular for us. I love that.
Speaker 1:I hope that women hearing this feel the permission to say I don't want to admit this, right, if that is the conditioning that they at least let their partners know. So, going back to what you were saying earlier, they can feel into the attunement that their partner is feeling something and that they are. What's the word when you're validating someone? That they're that the guy's on the point, he's, he's right.
Speaker 1:You don't want to make him feel wrong for something that he's right about, because, as you have so beautifully stated today, with coming back from the retreat and then your man having food, right, he's somebody who's been well attuned right. He feels something you have proven him like. Yes, you're correct. What you're feeling is right. Enough times that he sees this and he's able to respond because he's getting the right information from you.
Speaker 2:And I've really taken the time yeah, thank you. I mean I've really taken the time. It's been a big desire of mine and I've taken the time when it's not convenient or I could very easily brush over it to slow down and ask him to attune to me or say this is what's actually happening. Can you feel this and not beat him up for it, but teach him. Teach him about who I am and how I work and reveal myself and let him win. It's just more fulfilling that way.
Speaker 2:And the other piece about the brilliance of what you were talking about of yes, I am upset and I'm not ready to talk about it now is that and this is something I did not know my most of my married life that you could say something like that and then you can go on with your life. You can live in your house, you can make dinner, you could bring the kids here and there, you could have a holiday, whatever it is. You don't have to keep it in that you're upset. It's on the table, it's oh, here's this thing. Yes, it's true. No, I'm not ready to talk about it yet. And I don't have to disconnect from you and I don't have to withdraw and hide and pretend that this thing isn't happening. We're just not ready to talk about it yet, and there's an honesty to that. That creates fulfilling relationships, and this is a practice. This is something that takes a long time to build, so be really patient with yourself, and I had to have a lot of hiding it, a lot, a lot, a lot to have a lot of hiding it a lot, a lot, a lot before I was able to say something like you know what I am upset and I can't talk about it right now. We'll talk about it later.
Speaker 2:To get to that point, it's been a lot of years of practicing that, and I will also say that it's uncomfortable most of the time when I have to say something like that. It really is, and that's okay. I'm willing to be with the discomfort for the bigger thing of what I want, which is a joyful, healthy relationship, because what I often say to myself is okay, I chose this man, this is my relationship, this is my creation, this is my desire. How do I want to show up for my desire? How do I want to show up for my creation? Do I want to shit on it and drive it into the ground? Cause I could do that very easily. Or do I want to take care of it and water it like a plant and allow it to grow? I have that choice in all the interactions and I literally say this to myself, and when I water the plant, it grows.
Speaker 1:That is so good. Thank you so much for sharing that. What a gorgeous example of what's possible and what it takes to be there. It does take time, like Brenda said, to let your partner know. Hey, you know what you're seeing right now. Can you feel what's happening? This is what's happening for me Letting them in, because you're basically letting them in to feel you at a time when you don't even want to feel you like where it's so uncomfortable, like that's the last thing you want to do.
Speaker 1:It's really uncomfortable to be in discomfort, right, uncomfortable to be in discomfort, right, it's uncomfortable. And yet what a gorgeous pose in relationship to help your partner have that PhD in you and let them feel what it's like when you're uncomfortable. Let them feel what it's like when you're tired. Let them feel what it's like when you're upset, like feeling into you in all these different places, so that they are attuned to you, so that they can begin to oh, this is what's happening with my partner, that's what's happening with my partner. And the same thing goes for your friends, right, this is what's happening with my friend, that's what's happening with my friend, because we let them in. We let them feel and see what's happening.
Speaker 1:I hope that this episode really shed some light on our friends, families, listeners here all around, like how we can help people be successful with us, how we can have people win.
Speaker 1:We can have people win and it coming down to, we're helping people get PhD in us, some PhDs, some doctorates in, and we are the subject, we're the subjects here. Let's practice tons and tons of active listening and tons and tons of intentional sharing, just learning how to reveal and share of ourselves even when we are uncomfortable. Especially when we are uncomfortable, because clearly it's super easy to share love and joy when you want to just be loving someone, hugging up on them and telling them all the goodies. It's not so much when you have to say, hey, I didn't really like X, y or Z, or can we do A, b and C differently? And so if you enjoyed this episode, please share it. If you would like to leave a review, please do that. And if you do leave a review, take a snapshot, dm me on Instagram, let me know. I would love to give you a little gift and thank you so much for tuning in.
Speaker 1:Thank you for joining us on the Desire is Medicine podcast Desire invites us to be honest, loving and deeply intimate with ourselves and others. You can find our handles in the show notes. We'd love to hear from you.
