Desire As Medicine Podcast
Brenda & Catherine interview people and talk to each other about desire. They always come back to us being 100% responsible for our desires.
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desireasmedicine@gmail.com
catherine@catherinenavarro.com
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Desire As Medicine Podcast
88 ~ Relationship is the Curriculum: What We Learn From Each Other
The profound difference between solitary self-discovery and maintaining authenticity in relationships is the heart of this week's conversation. We dive deep into what it means to be "a monk on the mountain versus a monk in the city" – exploring how much easier it is to feel connected to our highest self when alone than when navigating the complexities of human connection.
Relationships serve as our most powerful mirrors, reflecting back aspects of ourselves we'd never see alone. That momentary sting when someone doesn't return our greeting or the discomfort of having our opinions challenged – these friction points aren't just obstacles to overcome but invitations to grow.
As we share personal stories about handling rejection and disapproval, we uncover how these moments can either cause us to crumble or strengthen our sense of self.
Episode Highlights:
• Relationships serve as mirrors, showing us aspects of ourselves we can't see alone
• The challenge of staying authentic while being in relationship with other people and their world
• Self-regulation when faced with rejection or disapproval
• Learning to stay open rather than crumbling when others don't approve
• How relationships expand our horizons by exposing us to different worldviews
• Creating something greater together than we could ever produce alone
• The importance of investing in relationships that matter
• Finding the balance between being fully yourself and connecting with others
If you related to this episode or have thoughts to share, please DM us and let us know how it resonated with you.
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If you'd like to learn more about 1:1 or group coaching with Brenda or Catherine message them and book a Sales Call to learn more.
Email:
desireasmedicine@gmail.com
goddessbrenda24@gmail.com
catherine@catherinenavarro.com
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@desireasmedicinepodcast
@Brenda_Fredericks
@CoachCatherineN
Welcome back. Family, friends, listeners so excited to be back with my lovely co-host, brenda. Brenda's here finally landed at her lake home, which is pretty exciting. As we sit here and think about what we're gonna record next and for those of you that are curious, I am still having tech issues with Riverside, but here we are doing our best figuring out what comes next as we're sitting here, we've been in the vortex of sort of the friendship sisterhood series and we've done a few gorgeous episodes right. Just it came through. And today Brenda was like I listened to this Abraham Hicks meditation on relationships. I really loved that and I was like, oh wow, I don't know if I would ever do one on friendships. And when I asked her why she would do it, she gave me the most gorgeous answer. And that's what I would love for us to talk about today.
Speaker 1:Everything is relationship. The reason why we even do relationship is because we really can't be alone, even though there are tons of places where I guess in the Western world we're taught to be independent, and as coaches we definitely are. I can speak for myself here. I definitely talk to people and say the more responsibility you take, the more freedom you have. You definitely want to have a clean side of the street, but that's not the be all end all. You want to have a clean side of the street and you want to make sure that you're handling your vessel, but it is so that we can be in relationship.
Speaker 1:You can experience yourself with yourself, but there's nothing like experiencing who you are with other. There is a purpose in relationship. You get to experience yourself and see yourself through the eyes of another human and see yourself through the eyes of another human. You get to see yourself reflected back. And when I think about this, it's sort of I'm thinking of the phrase being a monk on the mountain versus being a monk in the city.
Speaker 1:It's one thing to be in relationship with yourself and feel like you are the best human, running at zero patterns and zero chaos in your system, but then you go and be in relationship with other people and you're like, oh wow, I see all these things outside of me and I would like to take this opportunity, with my co-host, to remind everyone that, yes, relationships, friendships, are complicated, but we heal fastest in relationship. It's sort of like you can't take a shower without water, like you can't clean yourself without water. You need the water. You need to be in connection with someone to see how you're doing in that arena. Like that is the litmus test. There is a litmus test to relating. You're not just with yourself in a vacuum, feeling like you've got this. What comes up for you, brenda?
Speaker 2:Well, I was going to say the same quote that you said, because that is really where it's at. For me is being a monk on the mountain versus being a monk in the city, like there's so much to digest in that I can just have the best day just being in my own energy. I can feel so great, I can touch God. I have all these possibilities and feeling what's possible and ideas and just being flow, and it's so great over here, just me, myself and I, and that is great. It's actually really important to have that with yourself. But then sometimes you know we need to be a monk in the city because we want to be in life. And that's really hard because we get activated, we get triggered. People bug us, people are peopling, people are being people. And how do we be with that? How do we touch God? When I say that, I mean feel the full range of your possibility. When I say that, I mean feel the full range of your possibility, I call it touching God. But how do you be fully yourself, stay in your flow, feel quote great do everything that you need to do and also be in relationship with somebody else who may be potentially doing the same thing.
Speaker 2:Those things conflict because you know somebody else might be moving faster or slower than you are. That's a big thing for me in my relationship. I sometimes want to move fast. I'm going through ideas and my partner is much slower. Or I'm with people or friends who ask me questions Like what are you asking me questions for? I'm just going, I want to go, I want to do this thing and I need to slow down to be in relationship. I want to be present with another person who may be wondering what are you doing or why are you doing that? Or maybe have something completely different to say or do. That changes the course. It's not just about us if we're in relationship with people.
Speaker 1:Thank you so much for sharing that. What I'm hearing you say is sort of or summarize, is your experience of what it feels like when you are alone, when you're in your flow. Feels like when you are alone, when you're in your flow, at your speed, touching God, being the fullest expression of yourself, unencumbered, uninhibited, and then introduce people, and it's a different ballgame, I agree. I think it's an art. Friendships are an art. At first, it's because when I think of young children, toddlers, children between, let's say, three and six, where they go to a playground, they have words, they can use their words and you can see them when they get frustrated, they have tantrums. There's the little conflicts that show up and basically they just want another human to play with. Conflict sets show up and basically they just want another human to play with. Right, they could be home or in their own corner playing alone, and when they see one little child playing, they may want to play with that kid, maybe not. And then two or three show up and if the two or three are playing together, all of a sudden other things pop up Like well, I want to be part of the group.
Speaker 1:When I think of adults, like who wants to go to a party where there's just one other person. It's not a party, it's not a celebration. Yet there are people that I hear say, like, oh, I love animals. I love animals more than humans. I always find that statement so interesting. People will say, well, animals give you so much unconditional love and it's like, yes, you're in relationship with a cuddly being that doesn't speak back to you, like there is no friction other than potentially a meow or a bark or whatever else comes out of that being. You're not in a back and forth Sort of. That being is so happy to just be in your presence because you are responsible for its survival, versus we are responsible for our own survival, and part of that survival requires relating to another human being who has its own world right.
Speaker 1:Other humans are in their own conversation with self and other, and they have their own ideas of what a party looks like or what a conversation looks like or what being in relationship looks like. They have their own family values. They come to the table fully developed with so many other things than what we dealt with just in the sandbox as children, and there's so much reward there, there's so much available. Being in relationship for me, in my opinion, is our adult sandbox. This is where we go and play and be in relationship with other in the world, and it's not so simple, but it's so worth it.
Speaker 1:When I say worth it, I'll go back to what Brenda was saying.
Speaker 1:Brenda was talking about how she can feel herself and feel possibility when she's with other, and when we speak about being a monk in the city versus a monk on the mountain, it's how can you be yourself, the highest version of you, while still being with another person who has their own way of being being rubbed by all these circumstances that can come about, and you get to practice still saying your truth, being in your truth.
Speaker 1:You get to talk about your preferences, what you like, what you don't like. You get to practice saying yes, saying no, being a true yes, meaning you have already said no to some things and you know exactly where you're putting your attention. This in itself can be so rewarding, predominantly because you get to experience yourself in relationship with other and still staying true to you and not having to chameleon for another person. True to you and not having to chameleon for another person, like being yourself, regardless of the circumstances, is a gorgeous experience and it doesn't have to happen, and it may not happen every time, but the more often it happens like you can really start to see oh, I'm getting somewhere here.
Speaker 2:That's beautiful and we want to be the fullest, most authentic version of ourselves. And I think that that's probably one of the hardest thing to do when you're with other people, because when you're with other people, you're bumping up against their needs, their desires, their resistances, their fears, their judgments. Desires, their resistances, their fears, their judgments. How do you be your full self, that feeling that I know so well when I'm quote on the mountain and I'm by myself and I'm in nature and I'm in my own energy and in flow. How do you do that and have that feeling when you're with other people? I just think that is, for me, probably one of the biggest things I've worked on in my life and I think it's something that people really want.
Speaker 2:And when I talk to people, a lot of people just give up. I don't think that a lot of people think that they can have that or they just it feels so impossible. Yeah, and this is where we get into some tricky territory, because very often people end relationships because they think that they can't be their full self with that person, so they end a relationship. Ask me how I know this. End a relationship so you can have or be XYZ. So you can have or be X, y, z, but unless you clean that up in yourself and unless you practice being fully yourself with whoever you're around, you're just going to come up against that again in the new relationship.
Speaker 2:And also, I want to give room for the idea that sometimes it really is hard to fully express yourself with other people. Sometimes people just don't want to hear it and maybe you actually do need to end that relationship. I'm not saying that you should not end a relationship, that you have to practice being your full self, no matter what, with somebody. No, sometimes you do need to end a relationship or whatever your soul's journey is. But generally, I think, unless you clean that up in yourself and you work on, how do I feel when someone doesn't agree with me? How do I feel when somebody doesn't like my opinion or say what I want? Or if I don't do what somebody else wants, how am I in that moment?
Speaker 2:You're just going to constantly be searching and looking for new relationships. I think it's a skill that you need to build in yourself, how to be the full expression of yourself, and I think that's why it's really important to spend that time alone and to know what it feels like and to know what it is that you want. What are your opinions on things, what do you need, what are your true yeses and nos? These are important things to cultivate in yourself and then you bring it to your relationship and then you practice that Thoughts.
Speaker 1:Say that last piece again, what you practice.
Speaker 2:You practice saying your truthful yes or no. You practice saying your opinions, saying your truthful yes or no. You practice saying your opinions. You practice just letting out your full, true expression, whatever it is that you really want to say with the other person. And it takes practice.
Speaker 1:What is it that people come up against Like? What is it that they're practicing up against? What do you think happens for people when they're trying to say their true yes or true no? They try to express themselves and then something happens in connection where they're like maybe I don't want to do that.
Speaker 2:I think people crumble. I think people crumble. They get really scared. I think it's for many people, and this was a lot of my journey. It's hard to let the full truth of your heart out when other people might not like it or they want you to behave in a certain way. That's the thing, right? Yeah, exactly. And then who are we when we let the full truth of our heart out and somebody doesn't like it? Yes, it destabilizes your nervous system, and so it's like a practice of how do you stay solid, how do you not completely crumble?
Speaker 1:How do you not fall apart? Exactly, not fall apart.
Speaker 2:Yeah, how do you not fall apart? The word that keeps coming to mind is crumble. How do you not fall apart when somebody disagrees with you? Can you be with conflict?
Speaker 1:physically feel that you're not being approved of, that somehow this other individual doesn't really like who you are. It's an uncomfortable feeling and it requires us to like ourselves and that be enough. That's what has us not crumble right.
Speaker 2:Totally. I mean, I had that this morning. I walked past somebody who I know and haven't seen in a while and I said hello and he didn't even look at me it's an acquaintance and I was like, oh, that's interesting. And I felt my body go. I felt my chest tighten a little bit and I just noticed the interaction and an old me, an old version of me, would have been really upset by that. I did feel it because I could feel that he was closed and I thought to myself, oh, he must be really upset about something. He must be having a hard day because that clearly has nothing to do with me.
Speaker 1:There's different levels right, and I think we conflate them as humans. So you said, oh, there was a time when that would really bother me. I think what happens for us as we start thinking, oh, what did I do or what is it about me that they don't like, is it something I can change, like, how can I be accepted? There's this voice, this conversation that starts to occur, the part of us that wants to fix it and have it look and feel different, and then the part of us that's just like ouch, that hurt. Not being accepted, not being wanted, not being acknowledged, was painful in this moment and like it's going to pass right. It's if this person is an acquaintance or I just pass them on the street or you know when will I see them again. It's sort of. It's somewhat abrasive, but it's not forever abrasive, it's just in this moment when I said hello. And what I mean by we conflated is that sometimes we can't take away the ouch, this hurt in this moment, from I want to fix it right. They're separate. We don't necessarily have to fix every single rub that happens.
Speaker 1:Sometimes you're just in a good mood and people are like why are you in a good mood? Sometimes you're smiling. They're like why is this woman smiling? Or I know people who say I'm not a morning person, I don't want people to talk to me in the morning, I want to be in my own energy and not be spoken to Like I don't know if this person's circumstance, but being around that is not comfortable. Not so easy If let's say you're a morning person and you just want to chat, chat, chat all morning long, and the other person's like, oh my God, shoot me. The last thing I want to do is talk right now.
Speaker 1:We have different preferences, right. We are wired for human connection. Like we're connected beings, we thrive in connection. Like we're connected beings, we thrive in connection. Relationships give us, like when we think about the hierarchy, basic hierarchy, pyramid of needs, like basic needs, belonging, safety, right, feeling that we're loved. It's what helps us move through the world comfortably. And when you were in relationship, we're sort of have a mirror to understand ourselves better and it can be so dang frightening. I think that's one of the reasons why people say, oh, I'm a loner, I'm an introvert, I don't want to be in connection all day long. Because, yes, it takes a lot of energy to pass someone on the street, say hello. They don't respond or smile to someone. They don't respond, they're not acknowledging you, etc. And it requires energy on our part to stay regulated.
Speaker 2:It really does and it's a practice. I think it takes a long time and it's harder for some people than others, depending on how your system is built. And also after that happened this morning, I thought to myself. My first thought was, oh, like I could feel the angst of it. It was very small. And then I did think, oh, he must be really kind of unhappy today. And then I thought I think actually he doesn't like me and that's okay. I don't think I would have liked that many years ago.
Speaker 2:But now where I am hallelujah, I'm like I think that he might not like me. I think he has some judgments on me and that's okay. Now, what I do next is important. Do I respond with anger or do I close and just brush him off? Because I did see him again later and I'm just going to be my full self. I'm just going to be who I truly am, and they can like me or not like me. I think that's the part where people get lost is they think that if somebody doesn't like or somebody doesn't like, what they have to say you kind of retract and close, staying open and being fully yourself and still being bold without being like in somebody's face, I think is an art, like you said.
Speaker 1:Well, let's talk about that part a little bit, about closing when someone isn't so fond of us. It is a defense mechanism and it's also like oh, I can feel that you don't approve of me, I don't want to be available to you, right, like this is a natural closing and what you're talking about is oh, I see that you don't approve of me and for whatever reasons, that's none of my business and I'm going to stay open. It's not a one-on-one stance, it's definitely a practice, it's a higher level way of relating.
Speaker 2:I've practiced that a lot. I mean, that's been something that I've really worked on for a long, long time is how do I be my full self, that I can fully feel when I'm on the mountain, when I'm with other people? It's been a practice. It's definitely not a one-on-one stance. I mean, maybe for some people it is how about for you?
Speaker 1:What do you mean? It's a 101 stance.
Speaker 2:You said it's not a 101 practice?
Speaker 1:I don't think so. I think that that takes some practice, I think knowing that someone isn't fond of you and being able to stay open to a potential connection at any time, because that's what being open means. Being open means you have somehow shut the door, closed the door for me, but I'm still available to you. And I think usually, like, there's different locations to be at but someone doesn't approve of you. Usually the first is well, I don't approve of you either. Or well, I don't want to be in relationships with you anyway. Who cares? Right? And then there's oh, you don't approve of me. So I hear you and I respect that and I'm going to stay here and I'm not open to you, like I know that there is a disconnect and I'm leaving the severance there.
Speaker 1:And the truth is that solid relationships, like they, do reduce stress. Solid relationships are really helpful for us. They help us feel that we're connected. They improve mental health. We don't feel so lonely when we have community. The more community we have, the more connected we feel, the more in purpose on this earth we feel we feel, the more in purpose on this earth we feel. And so when we have to close off to someone. It's also hurtful for us, but when we're sort of trying to safe port our own heart it feels like the safest thing to do, and that's what I mean by 101. So for me it sort of depends on the person.
Speaker 1:I think if someone doesn't really like me, that's from my past that I've known for a long time. Usually I love those people anyway, like I don't hold it against them and I recognize that I'm not everybody's cup of tea. I feel that I have a specific personality, like a way of being. It's not so easy to be with all the time. I would definitely say if I were to know someone now and be in relationship with someone that potentially is slightly closed off to me I'm in the last quarter of my life, I don't really have space for that I probably would be more closed, not as open, unless it was sort of like in a work environment or tight living quarters. If there was a circumstance where I had to cross the person all the time, potentially I would be more open. But outside of that I don't think at this point in my life I would be available to it because it's just not necessary. I think necessity would dictate that, like, do I have to stay open or not. Because there's a certain energetic cost to staying open, because I have to make sure that I'm regulated. I have to make sure that, as I see this person's disapproval, that I make sure to be in approval for myself. Right, it requires a higher level of self-regulation to be around someone like that. So I'm not so on board with like yay, more of that, please.
Speaker 1:I'm like the places in my life where I can eliminate that yay, because I prefer to be in relationship. I understand that being in relationship has a high reward and I do want to have relationships that challenge my growth, where potentially they'll show me my blind spots. They can lovingly be there to call me out, potentially when I'm doing something either wrong or I'm shrinking or I'm playing small. But I also want to have joy and play right.
Speaker 1:I want to have and be in relationships where not everything has to be a struggle, like where I can laugh and be silly and just experience life. Like where I can laugh and be silly and just experience life. Yes, the kind of life that fuels me and it's not just fluff. So I'm open to all of it. But I would, at this point in my life, prefer the more combative and conflicting ones. I want to reserve those to the people that I can't get out of connection with, like for family or family of friends like my tighter knit circle. If I'm going to experience and have to spend that kind of energy, I want it to be sort of like a deposit into my community, not just because for this other individual. That was long-winded answer.
Speaker 2:It was a great long-winded answer. It wasn't even that long-winded, thank you, and I'm so glad you brought up about the relationships. And yeah, I think it definitely depends on who you're talking about and how much you want to invest. Right, that's definitely a thing, and I love that you brought up how you want, in your relationships, to experience life and be silly and play and experience joy, I mean, especially in today's world. I think our world is pretty complicated and there's a lot of stuff going on in the world no-transcript. And it brings me back to something that you said earlier about how you thrive in connection. I think that we do thrive in connection and I'm curious how you thrive in connection.
Speaker 1:Well, my personality, whether it's fixed or not, is, you know, a conversation for another time. Not my personality being fixed, but if, whether or not personalities are fixed, which I don't think. So I don't think necessarily identities are fixed, but I really learn best by being able to bounce things off of other humans. Sort of, I'm less of a journaler, more of a talker, and as I hear things out loud or I see the responses of others, that's the way that I sort of make sense of the world that I'm in. So for me that's one of the biggest ways that I thrive in connection is through conversation. I want to know other people's opinions, no matter how chaotic. I want to hear why people like certain things or know certain things.
Speaker 1:I was in conversation with someone the other day who was talking. It was a man and he was talking to me about female relationships and how he keeps coming across a particular type of woman and he's very adamant and I could see, oh, he has clearly a prejudice. And I offered in this conversation is it possible that the reason why you're continuing to meet this sort of person, this type of woman, is because there's something for you to learn there? It wasn't easily accepted, I would say it wasn't accepted at all. But I just say easily because it sounds better, and I thought, wow, I'm bringing that into this conversation because I could see in that moment and this is how I thrive in relationships, this is how I thrive in the world, because I can see it out.
Speaker 1:It's sort of like the projection screen. I thought, oh, there are so many places where my experience doesn't necessarily resemble somebody else's. Automatic experience, like, my experience of friendships could be different than your experience of friendships, and it's because we have different filters, different lessons that would lead to learn different patterns that we're running. And so, for me, staying open and being able to thrive in relationships is partly that I'm able to hear someone else's experience and understand that, even if that's not my experience, that that is their experience and I don't have to make theirs wrong. And I can see where it exists and understand that. One of the biggest reasons why it's not part of my experience is because we're running different programs in the background God willing, allow someone to be fully themselves because it helps me understand the world differently in a way that I couldn't, in a way that only exists in connection.
Speaker 2:You really nailed that. That was really beautiful. And I hear so much approval and acceptance for who the other person is in front of you when you're talking. That really is a practice as well learning to just fully accept someone for who they are, and you don't need them to be anything different than who they are. And it takes a lot of practice in yourself in stabilizing your own system to feel solid, so you don't need other people to be different. You could just accept people for who they are.
Speaker 1:I have felt myself retreat sometimes in that sort of dynamic, and what I mean by retreat is I know that our experiences are different and I know that the only way for me to know that person's experience in life exists is because they're telling it to me.
Speaker 1:Sometimes that person can be so invested in their playbook or their script of life and they think that that is the only way, because that's their lived experience and therefore, statistically speaking, they want to talk about law of averages and what's general, what's not general, and I'm always like there's scientific bias. If you are the scientist, if you are the person that is gathering the data, there is a filter that is irrefutable. That's occurring Like you bring your filter to the table, and so my constant work is can I allow for this person's filter to be in the table? Because it helps me see what else is occurring in the world, because I have my own filter and if I think that my way is the only way or my way is the right way, there's no way for me to expand my horizon to see what else is possible without other Like that is the gift that comes Sometimes to me.
Speaker 1:Potentially, what that person's saying sounds insane. Thank you for saying, brenda, that I bring a lot of approval. It's not that I don't have any judgment or that I don't think, oh, this person's way is absolutely bonkers or cuckoo, lala or delulu or whatever. It's not that I don't have any judgment. It's that I understand that it exists, that their world exists because they're telling me it exists, and they can't be the only person in the world that's telling me that exists. And the only insight that I will have to that is if this person shares it with me, because I am not part of that. I have have to that is if this person shares it with me because I am not part of that. I have no idea that it lives or doesn't live, and that's the only way to unlock possibility in the bigger scheme of things.
Speaker 1:Like it requires these little breakdowns of what I think things should look like or be like in order for me to even expand my ceiling. Now I'm starting to touch on something different, right, because originally we're talking in this podcast about relationships and being in relationship and how we really need relationships to thrive and to connect. It's what helps us get to other levels in this game called life. But now what I'm touching on as well. Expanding your horizons, expanding what you can touch, feel and know as possible In sisterhood, when everything is great and groovy is amazing, but being able to see the world with people that potentially are sharing a world with you that you didn't know existed, that can just rock your world.
Speaker 2:Amen. You bring up a great point. I mean, we do know who we are and we learn about ourselves through relationship with other people. I don't think that we can have the full spectrum of who we are. If we just stayed a monk on the mountain, could we have a great life? Yeah, could it be beautiful? Yeah, can you touch God all the time? Yeah, it could be amazing, right. But I would argue that it's not the full spectrum of who you are.
Speaker 2:And we do learn about who we are in relationship with other people Because, like you said, it's great when it's going great, but who are you when it's not going great? Who do you become when somebody doesn't agree with you or they bring up a different point, or they don't say hello to you when you're walking by, or you think you don't like them? Who are you then? And in relationship with other people, we also see what's possible, and we did a whole episode on possibility and this is like you could have a whole podcast just on possibility or on this topic of relationship. But I wouldn't know what's possible if I wasn't in relationship with other people. No way, this whole podcast wouldn't exist if we weren't in relationship and I've grown so much through it and so being in relationship and I've grown so much through it, and so being in relationship at all levels, all the levels of friendship, whether it's situational or all the way down to soul relationships, there is the opportunity to learn about who you are in any moment and expand your possibility.
Speaker 2:Because who was I when that person didn't really look at me and say hello this morning? Who was I? Well, many years ago I would have been the person who would have tried to fix it or make it right or gone into my head about it. And now I'm just the person that says, oh, that must he must be unhappy today and I don't have to judge him for it, and it's okay if he doesn't like me. There's been a lot that's gone into how I would have reacted to that in the past, and now it's like lifetimes.
Speaker 1:Yes, there's real magic and skill in that, you know, being able to say to yourself oh, maybe this person is having a bad day, and my assumption is that you also had a felt sense in some other information where you could deduce that because someone could just not like us and they could have be having the best day. That occurrence occurs as well, and you, brenda, just brought up a great point about who are we in relationship. I thought about this podcast and you could have a podcast alone. I could have a podcast alone and we would be sharing our thoughts. But in this podcast, right now, I want to point out that we're talking about the exact. We're showing and telling exactly what we're talking about being in relationship, talking about things growing as you go.
Speaker 1:This is a great example of what it looks like when it works, like we have been able to create something much more superior together than we would have apart.
Speaker 1:Much more superior together than we would have apart. This is a great example of that and I'm really excited and I feel blessed by it, and I guess if it didn't work, we wouldn't have had the podcast, because we did connect way before for a long time, deciphering and deciding if this was a baby we wanted to bring into the world. Thankfully, we said yes and we've had a great time doing it. And in relationship with you, in connection, in friendship, I definitely can see places where I'm strong. I definitely can see places where I could use some work. It's been a great mirror for me, both professionally and non-professionally, and so I would say yeah, no, that's what came up for me when you shared that. I was like, oh, this, this podcast, people witnessing us, in conversation, in connection, both in friendship outside of professionalism and in professionalism, we've been able to grow and this connection has helped us thrive in many areas that without the connection it would not have been available, and it has required work 100%.
Speaker 2:I think any relationship that has value requires work. It really does. It takes investing, like we said on our last episode, coins in the fountain. You have to put coins in the fountain if you want to have a relationship that works.
Speaker 2:On all the different levels of friendship and I'm just going to go back to this situation from this morning, even that one, because it's part of my community here, this person, and so I will be seeing this person, so it matters to me. Even though it might not be a close friendship, it still matters. And I think one of the beautiful things that we've experienced on this podcast is really how different we are. I mean, if you're just listening to the opening intro of our podcast, sometimes I listen to it and I'm like, wow, we are so different and we teach each other so much, and this podcast is so much more interesting than it would be if we each had our own, because you say things sometimes that I wouldn't even think about, and I think the reverse is probably true, which is why it works. She's shaking her head so yes, and that's. It's just an example of relationship, like you said, catherine.
Speaker 1:Yes, I think that relationship is so important. Choosing who we want to invest our relationships and where we want to invest our relationships is profound and inevitable. We are human beings that are meant to be like. We're wired for a connection and if we're only connecting with people that are like us, we're sort of really closing that possibility window because we don't get to polish the areas of ourselves that get to be rubbed in other friendships and other relating circumstances. At the end of the day, what I'm hoping this podcast has helped people see is that there's nothing like being a person that gets to be in relationship in this lifetime to the best of your ability, because it's just so rewarding. Thank you so much, everyone for listening. It was great having you. If this touched you in any way, shape or form, please DM us, let us know and we love you Until next time.
