94 ~ Scroll, Shop, Binge: How We Escape

We all want freedom but are our go-to comforts actually keeping us stuck? In this revealing episode, Brenda and Catherine explore the fine line between real freedom and sophisticated forms of avoidance.

From Netflix binges to spontaneous vacations, they examine how common pleasures can sometimes act as distractions from discomfort. Through honest personal stories, they uncover how facing limitations, rather than escaping them, builds deeper resilience and lasting liberation.

This conversation invites you to explore your own habits with compassion and curiosity. What are you avoiding? What would true freedom really feel like?

Episode Highlights:

• Common escape routes: Netflix, shopping, social media, and more
• Why temporary relief often delays real growth
• How simple actions (like going for a walk or cooking) can feel more freeing than elaborate distractions
• The connection between avoidance and feeling stuck
• How backing yourself in hard moments builds confidence and freedom
• Cultivating curiosity (not shame) around escapism
• Recognizing where you don’t yet have full choice
• Understanding that true freedom often comes through discomfort, not away from it

Share this episode, write a review on Apple Podcasts, and let us know how this conversation landed for you.

Chapters

• 2:16 Escapism vs True Freedom
• 5:29 Netflix, Shopping, and Other Escapes
• 10:15 Walking as a Freedom Fix
• 16:30 Facing Discomfort for True Liberation
• 25:03 Building Freedom in Our Stuck Areas
• 35:56 Embracing Curiosity Over Shame

Transcript

Speaker 2: 0:08

Welcome to Desire is Medicine. We are two very different women living a life led by desire, inviting you into our world.

Speaker 1: 0:16

I'm Brenda. I'm a devoted practitioner to being my fully expressed true self in my daily life. Motherhood relationships and my business Desire has taken me on quite a ride and every day I practice listening to and following the voice within. I'm a middle school teacher turned coach and guide of the feminine.

Speaker 2: 0:36

And I'm Catherine, devoted to living my life as the truest and hopefully the highest version of me. I don't have children, I've never been married. I've spent equal parts of my life in corporate as in some down and low shady spaces. I was the epitome of tired and wired and my path led me to explore desire. I'm a coach, guide, energy worker and a forever student.

Speaker 1: 0:58

Even after decades of inner work, we are humble beginners on the mat, still exploring, always curious. We believe that listening to and following the nudge of desire is a deep spiritual practice that helps us grow.

Speaker 2: 1:12

On the Desires Medicine podcast. We talk to each other, we interview people we know and love about the practice of desire, bringing in a very important piece that is often overlooked being responsible for our desire. Welcome back Feels so good to record. We really have such a gorgeous library of work. We are past the 90s, which is so exciting. We've been on this freedom kick, so I'm really excited for all of you to get to listen and hear us and be here with us as we dive deep into these different topics. Hopefully you're getting as much out of it as we are. One of the things that came up the other day out of it as we are One of the things that came up the other day while we were doing some freedom episodes was the idea of escapism, like there are things that we turn to for freedom.

Speaker 2: 2:16

Right, you had a long day like, oh, I can't wait to get home and have sex. Or I can't wait to get home and have a drink. Or I can't wait. Like the summer's coming, I'm going to have a vacation. Or ooh, the girls shopping weekend is coming. Or I'm going to get ready for my kid's prom, or that wedding, that graduation. There's a place where we subtly, are letting go of. Today there's a place where we're sort of not wanting to look at. How can I make today feel that good? How can I not be so trapped today? How can I have a little more freedom today? Where is the resource for the freedom today, the potential resource? Because often the party, the vacation, the drinks, the sex like it can be a distraction. Because often the party, the vacation, the drinks, the sex like it can be a distraction. It doesn't have to be.

Speaker 2: 3:09

I know a time for me when I started to make an influx of money probably late 20s, early 30s where shopping there was like like really shopping therapy. Shopping was like therapy, spending money. I didn't really know how to be with money. Now, in my 50s, I'm like trying to clean up all those places where I picked up those bad habits. They're definitely bad habits. I probably would have gained a lot more if I had paused and said to myself wow, what is this Like? Why do I need this bag in all the colors? Or if I had a heartbreak like why does it have to be brownies, ice creams and cookies? Like what exactly am I not looking to feel?

Speaker 2: 3:54

So sometimes I've escaped with money, with shopping, with food, or even if I was out with friends we've talked about deep conversations. But if it was just a conversation we've talked about deep conversations, but if it was just a conversation, where it was a top level conversation, I was like, oh great, I really don't have to go in deep into anything Like sometimes where we think we're free. Oh, I just had a great night, you know, I just out, got to party, I got to put everything down. But what's happening underneath, like, where is that escape? Sometimes, what we think freedom feels like can just be us opening those handcuffs for a little while, going to do something, coming back to our lives. And coming back into our lives often feels like we're just putting those handcuffs right back on. What comes up for you, brenda, I'm here with my lovely co-host, as always, because she's fantastic, fantastic, she's fabulous.

Speaker 1: 4:51

I love that she's doing this with me, brenda thank you, katherine, escaping with all of these little vices. I definitely was a shopper, definitely used to do retail therapy. Sometimes that will even still come up. I'll be on Amazon, I'll be clicking away in some form and then I'll catch myself. It's so easy to do, definitely. Another way that I'll do it these days is Netflix. I noticed even just last week oh, I'm watching Netflix every night.

Speaker 1: 5:28

I'm like consuming shows, like I'll get into phases where I'll be consuming a show and then it's over and then I want the next show. It crosses the line at that point of being entertaining and nourishing when it gets into consumption. And it's so easy to do these days with live streaming. And I noticed there's a trend in TV shows now where they're, instead of having them all the episodes you know ready for you, where you could binge it, which is just so fun, like I love to binge a show, now they're dropping them once a week. Certain shows are just being dropped once a week, which is really great. It's frustrating and part of me doesn't like it. But the part of me, like the bigger part of me, that loves the delayed gratification and loves to actually enjoy my life instead of consuming shows, I'm really happy when that happens and it's just great to notice Like there's no shame here, there's no beating myself up. It's no shame here, there's no beating myself up. It's very easy to fall into any of these habits and it's just noticing.

Speaker 1: 6:32

So recently I noticed oh, I'm consuming shows, what would actually be the real resource that I need. What's the actual resource? Because sometimes it is Netflix. I just want to hang out and watch a movie. That's so nourishing but, like I said, when it gets into consumption and like I have to have it, it feels like a fix. No, that's not the resource anymore. So lately I've been turning the lights off at night. I'll light a candle and I'll put on my favorite evening playlist, which is okay I'm going to out myself for being an 80s kid soft Billy Joel, I love it. Sing along with all the music. The lights are out, I could just chill out there before bed and it's so nourishing. Now, to me that feels like an actual resource no technology, no bright lights in my face at night and I'm actually getting nourished and my body's relaxing.

Speaker 2: 7:29

What you're touching on has me think about I may be guilty of this. I'm like, oh, what you're saying sounds so slow and it does sound deeply nourishing and in my head I'm like a dance party would be so much more fun, right. And I'm like, oh, I could see how, if it's not bright lights, loud music, potentially for me right now I may not look at it like true restoration, but it's more I'm noticing my mindset than the actual things that I engage in. Like I think it's my belief because I could hear it behind, as you were saying, I was like, oh, I don't know if I would see that it would definitely help me fall asleep, though that activity versus the shows that I watch that are usually some form of cop show, serial killer, and they're like gunning him down, my heart's like, it's like fluttering. That's definitely not getting me ready for bed. I'm like about to jump out of my skin and for sure, billy Joel, chilling out lights off candles, sort of soothing the nervous system, soothing my nervous system and getting ready to just sort of like really put it down.

Speaker 2: 8:49

I think of freedom, I think of, you know, pleasure, no responsibilities, like we get to sort of have an easy something, something in my mind, but in actual practice, when I want to have a break from my day-to-day, I'm not thinking, oh, billy Joel and candles. I'm thinking, oh, where do I want to go? Maybe Aruba? Where do I want to visit? What do I? Where do I want to travel to? And it's definitely not easeful, right, you've got to get on a plane and you have to go when you're traveling, and it's not Billy Joel and candles. So I wonder you know what actually is a real freedom fix? It's a good question.

Speaker 1: 9:32

What's a freedom fix To me? What I hear in that question and I don't know if this is how you meant it, but I hear what's the actual nourishing resource? And I keep having this thought run through my mind. It's actually an image while we're sitting here talking. I'm thinking about Billy Joel and candles and soft light, and it's so nourishing. But I also am thinking what are all the things that would really nourish me, Like, what are some of the things that would nourish me at night besides Netflix?

Speaker 1: 10:05

And one of the things that comes nourish me at night besides Netflix, and one of the things that comes up, a big desire, and I don't think I've given this to myself in a long time, but it's a really beautiful thing. It's so simple An after dinner walk. I feel like I've done, or I used to do, after dinner walks a lot, or it's kind of a maybe a vacation-y thing to do. You go on a walk after dinner and I don't do that anymore and I'm sitting here going. Oh, that would be really nourishing, Like at twilight, the warm weather's coming, Maybe you get an ice cream along the way, but it's not about that. It's really just about the walking, the sun coming down, being alone or with someone. That to me feels like a really nourishing thing that I haven't quite given myself in a while.

Speaker 2: 10:56

I love that because I think that I do give that to myself in the summer. I think the summertime, spring, summer, fall is a time for that, whether it's a nighttime walk or a daytime walk. It usually is after a meal, though it does feel the best because usually after a meal I don't want to do anything else. So if I kind of go for a walk or go move, I'll stay in my body and stay present and be able to do all the things that are on my mind to do that day and there is some sense of freedom that comes with that, especially when it's windy out, like we're in New York, and there can be wind most of the time.

Speaker 2: 11:34

I live in an area where it's super windy by the park and it always feels so freeing Not quite like being on a boat with a sailboat where there's breeze all the time because you're in the middle of the ocean, but close enough because I'm still on land, and I really enjoy that. That does give me sort of like walking with the wind feeling of freedom that could be. I love that we're looking at walking like a freedom fix. Who knew, who knew walking could be freedom. I that we're looking at walking like a freedom fix.

Speaker 1: 12:04

Who knew? Who knew walking could be freedom. I mean, it really is. What a privilege and a joy to have legs and live in a place that is safe and beautiful, that you can walk. It's so simple. It's such a nice thing to do as a family or with kids. When my kids were little, we used to go on after dinner walks and sometimes they would have an ice cream cone.

Speaker 1: 12:27

So they would like have an ice cream cone and walk with it. And I just have this one memory of like the ice cream just dripping everywhere on the walk, Like I don't think we made it very far, but it's such a. It's such a lovely, fun thing to do with your family.

Speaker 2: 12:43

Yes I'm thinking of. Most people are conditioned to grab an ice cream and sit Totally and put on a movie. I love doing that too. Just pointing to ice cream specifically, like how much freedom there is to just let it drip. Oh my God, You're just melting. It's all messy all over the place and you're like it just is. It's just ice cream melting, it's okay. I love that about kids.

Speaker 1: 13:07

I love that it could just drip all down their hands and like onto their clothing. It's just like dripping everywhere and they don't care. That really is freedom. That is freedom.

Speaker 2: 13:20

They're like I don't need to wash this, I don't need to watch this, I don't have to worry about that part and they don't care.

Speaker 1: 13:25

And what does it actually matter? There's still ice cream to lick, that's true. It's even better Cause it's just all over your fingers. Imagine we just treated life like that, just like kept going, even though it's like dripping and messy.

Speaker 2: 13:41

I wish I could. I think I'm too controlled. Still, I'm thinking about it. I'm like, oh, I would be thinking about, oh, I'm going to be sticky. I don't like that Totally. I'm going to have to wash this right away. I don't like that. I would be thinking about all those pieces and parts, but if I didn't have to worry about it then maybe I don't know. Yeah, this idea of like, where freedom rubs up against, am I really free or am I just escaping? Like, am I just avoiding reality? Am I trying to get rid of a discomfort? Um, and like I've talked about today, where we you know, for me, alcohol at some point, relationships at other points, shopping maybe now would be scrolling or binging shows, like you said, or maybe even consistent travel, like always need a vacation, or how about how fun it is to obsess over relationships, over, like, that argument you had with this person, or how such and such is not exactly how you would control them if you could.

Speaker 1: 14:54

Wait, are you talking about drama, the drama escape? I mean, a lot of people really are. If you're spending time in the drama and he said what and she said what and he did what, it's so easy to get caught up in social media in that way as well. There's so many posts on social media that you could take the bait on and get all involved in the drama. There's just so much there. Just talk about dripping. It's like dripping everywhere, overworking. Oh yeah, that's a really good one.

Speaker 2: 15:31

Is that?

Speaker 1: 15:31

one for you Overworking.

Speaker 2: 15:34

Probably Because I like it, it's fun. Yeah, I wouldn't define overworking the way I used to, where overworking meant I was either abandoning myself or not listening to cues when I was hungry or tired. Now I listen to the cues and pause. I mean, even today we were getting ready to record and I had to. I said to Brenda I'm just taking a moment because I need to meditate. I just really had to pause for the day before I could continue. Thankfully she's my co-host. She's amazing. She was like go give it to yourself, get it, get it. But now what it would look like is me making sure that the things that I want to do and the relationships that I want to maintain, that I'm making time for those things. They have to sort of be somewhere on my calendar in my life. Otherwise, yes, I could just ignore it. That would not be nice.

Speaker 1: 16:31

It's very easy to just keep working, especially when you do have your own business, or even if you're somebody in corporate or when I was in teaching, there was certainly work to always bring home. It's very easy to just keep working. There's really always something to do, especially now that everything's online. It's just endless. You could just be endlessly working and it really is a trap and I've had to create a lot of boundaries with myself around that one because it is fun and I love to create and I love the things that I'm creating in my business and I love working on this podcast. But also I want to have other things in my life. I want to have a balance. I saw this, this funny thing, on Facebook the other day. Someone said I didn't want to work nine to five every day anymore, so I quit my job and I started my own business and now I work 24 seven. That was really funny. But it's easy to do and we need boundaries with ourself or else we're just a slave to it.

Speaker 2: 17:37

It's so true. I mean, we're like moving now into a little bit of a different segment, when we're like, okay, what really is just giving us the freedom, hit like a false freedom, hit what is false freedom versus true liberation, and think that sometimes, when we engage in something that we think is really good maybe the binge, or the overwork, or the shop, the retail therapy At the end we're like my bank account is a little emptier or, oh, I'm reliant on that vacation. Or sometimes, maybe, like, oh, I still have that problem. To get back to that I don't really know how to handle, to that I don't really know how to handle because we just keep putting it on the back burner so that we can, you know, move towards a little bit more comfort, a little bit more joy, a little bit more as I was talking about before fun.

Speaker 2: 18:31

Sometimes true freedom requires us to feel the uncomfortable truths. Here we are back to our tried and true desire formula of having to feel our discomfort, to our tried and true desire formula of having to feel our discomfort like be in the discomfort, reclaiming our agency and our presence, where we get to face our unmet, potentially unmet needs, unmet desires and the grief that comes with that. I mean, we could even filter it like does doing this bring me back to myself or take me further away, right, does that feel like a good spot?

Speaker 1: 19:24

energy for me to back myself in what I really wanted to do, and it would have been very easy to go for the quick fixes. I needed to do laundry and I wanted to cook and, without going into all the details, all of those things felt hard on this particular day. I couldn't get the washing machine to go on, it was just. Everything was hard and there were so many moments that I could very much justify dropping it and not continuing, or instead of cooking, because it felt a little hard, just let's just go out to dinner or order in. And I really wanted clean clothes, I really wanted nourishing food, and so I kept coming back to I'm going to just do this laundry. I ended up doing it at night, which was very much out of my preferences, and I did end up cooking. And I felt like with those decisions they weren't easy and had to just keep coming back and had to deal with so many little obstacles along the way. But it felt like this supreme backing of myself. I felt like I was coming more to myself, more of myself, and I could feel an internal freedom with all of these decisions. Because if I just put the laundry back in the basket and said all right, I'll try this tomorrow. Well, I'm just going to be in the same boat tomorrow and I still don't have clean clothes and that doesn't feel like the life that I want to live.

Speaker 1: 20:48

And I am the first one to say let's go out to dinner or order in. I love doing that. I love spending my money in that way. I love food, I love restaurants, but not always. You know. There's a time where I really want to cook and I want to know what oils are in my food and what ingredients are in my food and I want to actually make it. It's nourishing and fulfilling to me to get good ingredients and to spend the time with my hands in the kitchen making food and then feeding it to myself and my partner. That is really nourishing to me. And so sometimes there are obstacles. You just have to ask yourself what do I really want here, what would be the most nourishing thing and what do I have the capacity for today? And there's really no right or wrong. If I had gone out to dinner that night, then great, so be it, you know. But it felt really good to back myself in that way.

Speaker 2: 21:45

I love how you backed yourself and I love how you were honest. I don't know if all the listeners know yet, but you actually are a really good cook and you're a mom, so you were cooking for two well, for your babies, in addition to your whole family. For many, many years I've seen Brenda cook. She can whip something up super fast and it's really delicious. And I think for moms who cook well, it's probably like oh, I just really miss my own food. I do a really good job, right, and maybe there are flavors that bring you comfort or that you know exactly what's going to feel good to your body and you can nourish yourself in just the right way.

Speaker 2: 22:25

And I think it's so honest and in that honesty, when you can say to yourself I would love to have someone cook for me and I'm really sort of missing doing that for myself, being in the kitchen, hands in the food, knowing exactly what soils, what oils are going into my food. What I'm cooking with is a place of really honoring yourself and taking responsibility. But it doesn't feel like freedom in the in the forefront. It feels like freedom at the other side, like in the front end. It feels like, ah, there's all this to do.

Speaker 2: 23:01

I wish I had a little minion or butler right To give it to me exactly how I wanted it, but you still wouldn't have the sensations that come from you being in there with your own hands.

Speaker 1: 23:13

Totally, and it feels really good to move through obstacles. We don't always want things to be smooth and easy. I mean, we say that my word of the year is ease and I would love things to be smooth and easy. But let me say it a different way that's just not how life is. Life just isn't smooth and easy all the time. I can ask my higher power for it to be smooth and easy, but there is generally a rub in life and that's where we get to meet ourself. We get to meet ourself, we get to see what we're made of, we get to back ourselves, we get to work through obstacles and do hard shit and that builds our self-esteem to do hard things and it grows us and it makes us resilient.

Speaker 2: 24:03

I know, I know I get that doing the hard things give us self-esteem and just how I didn't want to do it when I was a little kid. Often I don't want to do it as an adult either, like I don't want to clean my room and I don't want to brush my teeth and I don't want to do all the things, especially if I'm tired. But it does give me the self-esteem on the other side. It does have me feel, oh, I've got this, I've got me, like I can easily either order out or cook it exactly how I want it and feel better about myself on the other side, not because I'm feeling bad about myself right this moment, but understanding that there's an impact based on my decision as to how I want to deal with this. So do I want to face it front on, head on straight, just handle it, or do I want to sort of pass the buck and deal with it in a different way?

Speaker 2: 25:04

There's a cost to giving it up. There's a cost to giving my responsibility to someone else, becoming potentially even dependent on expecting other people to show up for me in a specific way so that I could be okay or so I could feel safe or so I could feel taken care of. Outsourcing all of that takes a toll on us in the long run. I remember a time when I was in this relationship this is like many years back and he used to cook and do all the shopping and one day after we had broken up, I walked into the supermarket and I felt like an alien.

Speaker 2: 25:48

I was like I don't even remember where all the things are in the supermarket. It had been that long. It was really nice to have someone handle all those pieces for me, but I don't know how good it feels to feel that alien in your own life after giving it to someone else to handle for so long. So I'd like to ask you, brenda and I'm going to ask myself the same question here Like where in my life right now do I notice that I'm not actually free? So I'll start and I'll share that.

Speaker 2: 26:25

I think it's around content. The content takes me a long time to write, takes me a long time to sit with. I feel like I become this little child. That's like I don't know. I don't know. I don't know what I want to say, I don't know what I want to share.

Speaker 2: 26:40

There's this like flailing part of me that just doesn't like it. I could list all the reasons, but they're just reasons that or excuses, or stories that I'm giving to myself. But basically it's uncomfortable and I've been chipping away at it little by little for a while now I don't even want to say how long because it's embarrassing, but I should. It's been a few years. It's not like a few months or a few days. It's been a few years. It's not like a few months or a few days, it's been a few years. When I stay present with it instead of escaping or not doing it. It's uncomfortable and it does require me to be with the scared part of me that doesn't even know why it's scared. Or now I'm talking about parts work right, but maybe the little one in me that's scared and doesn't want to be visible, or the part of me that's maybe my teenager and just my teenager wants relief. Our teenagers definitely don't want to do any work. The teenagers just want to be, and it's time for me to just be, with the discomfort of it all, all my little ones screaming at the top of their lungs that they need their needs to be met, and this is uncomfortable and we don't want to do it.

Speaker 2: 28:08

But I know in my mind, in my grown-up mind, that the only way I'll be really free from this not wanting to or not being comfortable putting out content is getting better at it. That's where the true freedom is. But when we think about false freedom, potentially it would be to give it to somebody else to do, somebody else to manage, hire an online business manager, or hire a virtual assistant, somebody else that just does it for me, but the result would happen like the content would be created, but I wouldn't have built the resilience and the freedom from it, and that's really what I'm looking for. So life is interesting like that right, like we think we want. The result in this case would be the ability to post, let's say, easily, in all areas. I say in all areas because I love my podcast, like I love our podcast. This, to me, is my favorite thing of all time, but I have to be in the trenches to get there. What about you?

Speaker 1: 29:12

I have to be in the trenches to get there. What about you? That's such a great example and I want to reflect back your word of the year. Since I mentioned my word of the year was ease. Your word of the year is skills. For some reason, I want to spell that with a Z at the end. Make it more fun. But your word of the year is skills and you want to learn how to do these things and that's what you're focusing on this year and that's quite beautiful. So I don't think that you want to just give, give it to somebody else or pay somebody else. You're you're in the trenches saying I want to learn how to do these things, like you're really backing yourself in that way, really backing yourself in that way. Okay, so for me these are so vulnerable. To admit this question of where are you not fully free? For me, it's in my energy, like having physical energy.

Speaker 1: 30:12

As listeners may know, I was on a four and a half month cross-country road trip. I've been back for almost two months. Inside of that time, I moved, I worked at retreat. That was quite difficult and I've been setting up a new space. I've been setting up the structure of my new space. So when I came back from the trip. It's not like I came home and had the soft place to land. I came back to an empty space with like piles of boxes and bags, and I've been working every single day to build the structure of my new space for myself create, organize it, just make it so I can live in it. And it's taken an enormous toll on my energy. Like not having my home set up for myself, oh my God. Like moving is really one of the biggest stressors, and especially after such a long trip not having that, and so my energy has really taken a toll. It's just the physical part of moving things around, plus the mental piece of figuring things out. How do I want to organize this space. It's just made me exhausted, and so I've been backing myself by working on it every day, doing something, unpacking something, organizing something, ordering something that's needed every day. And when I say work on my room every day, sometimes that actually means I have to lay down and rest. Sometimes that's actually what's needed, and sometimes it's just been crying because I'm just tired or taking a bath.

Speaker 1: 32:00

All of those things have gone into it and I just haven't had a lot of extra energy, so I've been working on my business in the background. I work on our podcast. Those are my priorities. My family is my priority as well, and I just haven't had any extra energy for anything else.

Speaker 1: 32:17

I haven't wanted to do anything really big socially and I feel like that's not a place that I'm fully free. I would love to feel more free to go and do this and go and do that and go to this show. I haven't wanted to do it because it's just been exhausting to me. So and it is, it's confronting and it's uncomfortable, because I want to see certain people more often that I'm actually able to do right now.

Speaker 1: 32:49

And I also do want to report that I felt a really big change in the last week. I think, like all the resting and the, my room is pretty much set up now. I've rebuilt my energy working on it, and so I actually went to the city the other day and had brunch with my little sister, and I was so happy that I had the energy to do that, and so that's just something that I'm working on, and my goal also was I want to finish this up in the month of May and I want to take June off from setting up my space and just give myself a break and just enjoy life more and do more things and have more freedom to fill my own cup in different ways.

Speaker 2: 33:39

I think that we've given listeners great examples, because originally, when I first started talking about this episode, I was talking about, like you know, vacations or shopping, scrolling, binging, potentially drinking sex, those sort of escapes and we landed at a place where I was talking about content. You were talking about your room, where there are places where we're not really free. We're not really free to choose or not choose. You're not really free to not do your room because you want the result of enjoying your space and I'm not really free to not do your room because you want the result of enjoying your space and I'm not really free to not do the content because I'm not at a place where I could take it or leave it. Like I'm not fluent in that language yet, and that's where our opportunity lies. Like where is it that we don't have full choice, right? Like where is it that we're gripping in some way to comfort? So I'll ask listeners like what are your favorite escape routes and what is that route that's protecting you from? So if it's drinking or binging, or scrolling or shopping, why do you feel the need to do that? And that's so you could write in about it.

Speaker 2: 34:58

It's drinking or binging, or scrolling, or shopping. Why do you feel the need to do that? Not so you could write in about it although I'd love to listen, I'm sure, brenda, and I would love to be part of this for you but more for you to feel into. What is that for yourself, and what would freedom in that area feel like in your body, in your relationships, in your day-to-day life? For me, freedom would feel like oh, it doesn't take me that long to write anymore. Oh, it doesn't take me that long to figure this out. I can batch, I can have something stocked. That would feel really great. For me, it would feel like tons of freedom and space in my body. How about you, brenda? What are we thinking you're going to feel like in June, when your space is all set up and you don't have to like escape from fixing it?

Speaker 1: 35:44

Oh my God, cue the dance music right now. Yeah, it's just going to feel great, and it just already feels great. We had someone come in and lay the carpet this morning, amen, and now I could just breathe and rest and let it be for a little bit. It just had to get done and I just want to say how uncomfortable it is that it's just taking so long. Like I just want it done like that, and certain things, you know, I did move along quickly and other things just took a long time Because my energy just wasn't there. So it was really uncomfortable. So it's gonna feel great.

Speaker 2: 36:24

I love that you brought that in, because the truth is, we don't know how long something's going to take.

Speaker 1: 36:30

Things will take much longer than we think. I mean, isn't that the rule? Something will take three times longer than you planned, or three times as much money.

Speaker 2: 36:39

Potentially, yes, I mean, I love the 3X idea. I also think that we could say to ourselves oh my God, I can't believe this took so long to get to the freedom side of it, because we're not really looking at where the resistance was and what the cost of that resistance, or the cost of that procrastination, or all the times that we gave into the story where we didn't want to be uncomfortable, where we didn't want to learn to scale or traverse the space that was necessary in order for us to get to the other side. And if you're listening, I want to encourage you that this is not your time to beat yourself up. This is not. We are approaching where we're stuck and where we're not free predominantly with curiosity. Not shame, just curiosity. We can sort of scan our lives and see where am I trying to escape and can I come back to presence. Instead, let us know how this episode landed for you. Share it, review our instagram or even go on apple podcast, write a review, send us a screenshot until next time. Bye for now.

Speaker 1: 38:00

Thank you for joining us on the Desire is Medicine podcast.

Speaker 2: 38:04

Desire invites us to be honest, loving and deeply intimate with ourselves and others. You can find our handles in the show notes. We'd love to hear from you.