Desire As Medicine Podcast
Brenda & Catherine interview people and talk to each other about desire. They always come back to us being 100% responsible for our desires.
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desireasmedicine@gmail.com
catherine@catherinenavarro.com
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Desire As Medicine Podcast
106 ~ How Caregiving Transforms Desire
When health challenges arise, whether caring for an aging parent, supporting a partner, or facing personal illness—desire often shifts in profound ways. Priorities change almost overnight, reshaping how we experience and relate to desire itself.
In this episode, Brenda and Catherine share personal stories and reflections on caregiving, illness, and the transformation of desire during these seasons of life.
Brenda speaks about her time caring for her mother, grandmother, and father, and how her desire became rooted in simply being present with them. She reflects on the tension between wanting to give everything and recognizing her own limits, along with the guilt of not always being the “perfect daughter.”
Catherine recalls the vulnerability of receiving care after surgery, including the discomfort of relying on others when she could not give back. Together, they explore how care, whether given or received, creates opportunities for deeper connection, honesty, and grace.
They also speak to the intimate presence of grief during caregiving. As Brenda shares, “Grief is in the room, and the grief is the love.” Grief, while painful, also opens the heart to profound meaning and intimacy.
At its heart, this episode is about the gifts that emerge when life slows down to essentials. In returning to basics, we discover resilience, community, and the surprising ways love reveals itself.
Episode Highlights:
• Desire shifts toward basic needs when health is the focus
• Self-care is essential when supporting loved ones
• Setting boundaries is necessary, even in caregiving
• Asking for help builds community and allows unexpected gifts
• Grief accompanies caregiving yet opens the heart to connection
• Life and death rarely unfold according to expectations
• Joy and beauty can be found even in difficult caregiving moments
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Email Us:
desireasmedicine@gmail.com
goddessbrenda24@gmail.com
catherine@catherinenavarro.com
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@desireasmedicinepodcast
@Brenda_Fredericks
@CoachCatherineN
Welcome to Desire is Medicine. We are two very different women living a life led by desire, inviting you into our world.
Speaker 2:I'm Brenda. I'm a devoted practitioner to being my fully expressed true self in my daily life. Motherhood relationships and my business Desire has taken me on quite a ride and every day I practice listening to and following the voice within. I'm a middle school teacher turned coach and guide of the feminine.
Speaker 1:And I'm Catherine, devoted to living my life as the truest and hopefully the highest version of me. I don't have children, I've never been married. I've spent equal parts of my life in corporate as in some down and low shady spaces. I was the epitome of tired and wired and my path led me to explore desire. I'm a coach, guide, energy worker and a forever student, even after decades of inner work.
Speaker 2:We are humble beginners on the mat, still exploring, always curious. We believe that listening to and following the nudge of desire is a deep spiritual practice that helps us grow.
Speaker 1:On the Desires Medicine podcast. We talk to each other, we interview people we know and love about the practice of desire, bringing in a very important piece that is often overlooked being responsible for our desire, piece that is often overlooked being responsible for our desire. Welcome back everyone family, friends, listeners. We've been doing a little bit of a desire series here. Brenda and I are so excited to get back to it. I am joined with her as usual, happy to see her and happy to be in the studio again today. Happy to see her and happy to be in the studio again today. And we've talked about desire from a few different angles the past few drops of episodes, one of the things that has come up for me in my world as I look out. I'm about to share it in a minute, but I can't wait to ask Brenda about it because she has tons of experience in this field, in this arena around desire, so I'm excited to see what genius she brings Desire.
Speaker 1:We've talked about how to tap into it when you know what it is and you've lost it.
Speaker 1:We've talked about what it feels like before you even know what you're dealing with like just having whispers or little taps on the shoulder when desire is like hey, take a look over here, and just as a reminder, desire is sort of life force wanting to be expressed through you in a particular way. We talked about what happens to desire when we have things happen like maybe we're sick. We have things happen like maybe we're sick, we have kids. The phase of life changes for you and desire isn't at the forefront. One of the times in life where this is really visible is when we're taking care of other people. A lot of times, women have this experience when they have children. I don't know how often in our society, but a lot of people take care of their parents or their elderly parents maybe not so elderly, maybe sick parents and today what I want us to look at is how do we touch desire when we are caring for others and, to a certain extent, we have their needs ahead of ours, brenda.
Speaker 2:Well, this is a beautiful topic Thank you so much, catherine and a very poignant topic. As you know, I've been taking care of my mother recently, as she hasn't been really well. And how do we have desire when our world kind of stops in a way? You know we're going along with life and we have these quote problems, and then something really big comes in and then we're like, oh, maybe those weren't such big problems after all, and so our priorities change and our time and energy actually shifts because it's going towards one thing in particular and take care of our parents. That's a really big role reversal right there.
Speaker 2:If you have elderly parents my mother's. I wouldn't consider my mother elderly she is going to be 80 this fall, but she did have an injury recently and she is getting older and I've been taking care of her recently. So how do I touch desire when I'm taking care of my mother? What a great question. My first thought is it gets really simple, like it becomes simple and slowing it down and it becomes chop wood, carry water and very low to the ground. It's like. It's like how do I take care of myself and give myself what I need so I can be present for this person who I love so much.
Speaker 1:Thank you so much for that. And yes, you've reminded me of the quote and I'm sure many communians have used this because I've seen it many times and I laugh every time as if it's the first time. We can have tons and tons of problems until we have a health problem, and then, when we have a health problem, we have a health problem, and then, when we have a health problem, we have a health problem. That's the only problem that we have, and sort of same same If we have a loved one that either lived with us, a parent or a child, someone that we care for or either with our hearts or literally care for, we are responsible for, for whatever reason, if that person, individual, has a health problem, that becomes the only problem and it puts everything in perspective. You said, yes, we slow down, we sort of chop wood, carry water. Everything becomes really simple and I want to sort of expand on that and say it becomes did I take a shower today? Did I get dressed today? Am I rested? Was I able to sleep? Have I eaten enough today? Like, really going down to the basics, did I pay my bills? Like, is my rent paid? My car note, do I have anything outstanding. Is there someone I need to call?
Speaker 1:I haven't been in this position, which is why, brenda, I wanted really you to talk about this. I've been in this position from the perspective of whenever I've been sick and I've had to slow down and I've had to ask for help Like, oh, I'm about to have an operation, can you, on this day, come and pick me up from the hospital? Or can you, friend, on this day, drop me off at the hospital? Or can you, friend? I remember one time I asked a friend if she could come and give me homeopathic pellets underneath my tongue while I was in the hospital, because that helped with, like, recovery from anesthesia and things like that. For me it was pre-planning, it was like my pregame for my recovery.
Speaker 1:And how do I plan for all those steps? But I've never had to do it for someone else. And whether it's for us, our own health, or we're taking care of somebody else that has health issues, I think the bigger desires of I want to become a millionaire, or I want to live in a mansion, or I want to go have my Disney vacation, I want to take a trip around the world that's not present and palpable anymore, palatable anymore, I think when we have those desires, it's really easy to feel tapped into our desire. But when health pops up or the health of someone else pops up and it's in the room, it's as if the rest of the air in the room got sucked out. And how do you stay nourished? You say, or you said it goes back to the basics. Is there anything that I mentioned or that I didn't mention?
Speaker 2:I think you really nailed it, or that I didn't mention was dying in 2001. He tried to take his own life. So those seven or eight weeks in the hospital were really big. And then I had that experience in 2014, taking care of my grandmother my father's mother and after my father died. Not only did I take care of my grandmother at the very end of her life when she was in hospice, I took care of my grandmother for all the years between when my father died, from 2001 to 2014. My sister and I were caring for my grandmother. It was a generation skipped, so we were caring for her and we were her bottom line.
Speaker 2:And now I'm looking out for my mother. Luckily, she has a husband who is wonderful and you know, god willing, she'll be fine and live to her hundred years, as my grandmother used to say. But right now she is having a health issue, and so what I will say is that you're 100% right when you say the desires change. It does become simpler. Certain things just don't seem to matter anymore. I take my commitments very seriously, like showing up to this podcast, showing up for my clients. It's very important for me to take care of myself and eat well, and I'm not willing to let any of those things slide. Thank God that hasn't come up for me where that's been an issue.
Speaker 2:But even in a simple day of taking care of my mother and driving her back and forth last week for body work, taking care of myself, feeding myself, being really tired, feelings came up for me of what am I actually capable of here, what am I actually available for? And there were things that I had to say no to. There were things that I had to say no, I don't actually have the capacity. After four hours of driving, cooking, bringing your body work, I actually can't now drive another two hours home. And that was very confronting to me to have that come up Like, oh I'm actually. What actually happened was we were supposed to sleep over. She was having some body work at a friend's and she changed her mind that she didn't want to sleep over and I came back from getting some food and she said I want to go home. And that was very confronting to me because I hadn't eaten dinner. So I wasn't able to just be at her beck and call and I said to her very lovingly I need to have something to eat and then we can talk about it After I ate.
Speaker 2:I realized I actually don't have any capacity to drive her home two hours right now, and what came up for me was thoughts of oh, I'm not a good daughter. Came up for me was thoughts of oh, I'm not a good daughter. You know. We talked about if you want to go home right now, that's fine. I didn't want, I would have liked for her to stay, but of course, whatever she wants is what I'm going to try and make happen for her.
Speaker 2:So we talked about an Uber, and then I really had to work through some internal moments of what is my family going to think. Is my family going to blame me and say you should have driven your mother home. I can't believe. You sent her home in an Uber when it was actually a really loving act and I had to like work with myself in that moment and say, oh no, this is actually very loving. I'm not doing anyone any favors if I get in a car right now and drive her two hours when I don't actually have the capacity to do that. So these are just some little things that come up in the moment that can be quite confronting.
Speaker 1:It is confronting. It is interesting that I haven't had to go through this. I mean, I didn't take care of my mom because I was a teenager when she passed. I didn't take care of my dad because I didn't live in the same state. My brothers, my older brothers, did that. Grandparents weren't around, so I haven't had to see that in that way. On the contrary, I have been someone who people are there for me, I'm receiving, and what you just spoke about right now had me think about. I had a friend I think it was after the second surgery who stayed with me A few days post-surgery.
Speaker 1:It was like hard to get out of bed, go to the bathroom. I sort of needed somebody so that I wouldn't fall. It was sort of make sure that I was steady in my walking and it was really confronting to me that I was having someone there to help me. But I couldn't really be present there. I'm like clearly I'm high, I'm on painkillers. I can't really have a conversation with someone or meet them halfway or ask them how their day is or how they're doing. I had to be willing to receive without being able to, in any way, shape or form, give back. It was very confronting and in that location it becomes hard. Desire is definitely not in the room. I'm not thinking about any yachts or any ballroom dances or anything like that.
Speaker 1:At that time the desire becomes I just want to feel better, right, I want to be able to be part of my social group and I want to feel better again and mingle. And it becomes really basic Like can I have a conversation with another person, another human? Can I meet them in conversation? Do I have the energy to just be in conversation for between an hour to three hours? Because that act alone during those times is so hard and so difficult.
Speaker 1:It's a time to receive from other people, knowing full well that you really can't meet them in any way, shape or form at that time, and it's a lot to receive. And it's a lot to receive While also you're receiving a lot and also having difficulty in really feeling into what is it that I really want outside of the really small basics. Part of this umbrella conversation today around this is just shining a light on the fact that this is hard, whether you're caring for someone and you're wanting to still be present for your desires, someone's caring for you and you want to be present for your desires. Someone's caring for you and you want to be present for your desires. When health is the alarm in the room, everything becomes really small it really does.
Speaker 2:Thank you for sharing that. I really feel the vulnerability in receiving help in that particular way, where you're not necessarily able to express it to the extent of what you're really feeling. And what came up for me when you were talking about is the kind of love that exists inside of that space, like so much love that you're being cared for in that way, and also how much love you had for yourself to set that up for yourself and to ask for somebody to come and help you. That is beautiful, because a lot of people are out there braving it on their own in self-sufficiency vibes and that's not great and really you're going to heal better if you have help. So amen on that. I think that's a really good example. And what I also wanted to say desire is definitely in the room.
Speaker 2:Last week, when I was taking care of my mother, the desire that was in the room, it changes completely. It's not about, oh, I want to build my business, or I want a podcast on this particular issue, or oh, I really wanted those pants. No, it's the most deepest soul desire. My desire that day leading up to it and moving forward, is I want to be there for my mother to the absolute best of my ability in whatever she needs and, god willing, she'll live a long time Because I have taken care of my grandmother at the end of her life and she was 94 when she died and it was beautiful. It was beautiful to take care of her and it was at a time in my life where I was really busy. I was having a huge spiritual sexual awakening during that time. I was going through a divorce. It was a lot going on in my world at that point and I was taking care of her as well. I was teaching full time, my kids were teenagers, I was visiting her in her assisted living and with me even now every day and I look back and there's things I learned from that that I am applying right now. God willing, this desire will certainly grow me to my mother. I want to be there for her so much.
Speaker 2:That's my desire and it just feels like the most beautiful heart-centered desire that I could have. And it asks me to take really good care of myself. Because at this point in my practice that just has to be, because I do have a foundation of self-love and boundaries for myself. I need to take really good care of myself, which means I need to have movement, I need to eat, I need friends to talk to, I need to ask for help, and I have an amazing sister who actually lives close to my mother and so she's able to go over there a lot more than I am, and so it really takes good communication with my sister and we always have this thing in my family, like if one person is going over to someone's house, let's all go together, and that's kind of this belief of how we do things and it's really fun. It's always a lot of chaos, but that's not gonna jive when my mother wasn't feeling well and he needed to go and take care of her, because I don't need to have a social day in that way when I have work and other things to do and I don't know what's coming. So we had to kind of cut through that way of being in my family and say, okay, you go today and I'll go tomorrow. When we generally don't do it that way, we're generally like let's all just go together and have a party, asking for help, dividing up, and then there's the really big piece when we're taking care of other people, people that we love, our parents, our grandparents.
Speaker 2:Whoever it is is grief. Whoever it is is grief. Grief is in the room and the grief is the love and it is confronting, it's very confronting and it's confronting to me, even right now, that you know we don't know what's going to happen. We never know what's going to happen. That's why I really try to make every moment count, especially with my mother, and I have thought about it and it is terrifying to lose her, and it's also something that I feel my system preparing for, as much as I don't want to admit that, because it's just the way it goes. God willing, I'll live to be 100 years and my kids will lose me one day. That's the way it goes. That's the order of rightness in our world. That's the way it's supposed to be. It's not supposed to be the other way around.
Speaker 1:Well, we can't really decide that one.
Speaker 2:No, we can't, but it is the way it's supposed to be. I mean, we're supposed to raise our children and that we're supposed to die before them.
Speaker 1:Well, that's a great topic, Maybe different die before them. Well, that's a great topic, maybe different podcast.
Speaker 2:Wait, I want to hear what you have to say.
Speaker 1:Well, we don't know the order of that.
Speaker 2:No we don't Like.
Speaker 1:Life is a gift, and so when you say that's the way it's supposed to be supposed to be, I think we decide that it's supposed to be that way, or we want it to be that way, based on our like desire for things to run up in a particular way, like for things to have a particular sequence, but we don't actually know the sequence, because we don't know the sequence and there are so many different sequences for so many different people that it makes that not be the case, like it's actually not true. We just don't know.
Speaker 2:No, we totally don't know, but I think the natural order of things is that parents die before their children, and I totally get what you're saying I know you keep saying that.
Speaker 1:That's why I'm like where is that coming?
Speaker 2:that it doesn't always work out that way, but I don't think that it's the natural order.
Speaker 1:Maybe it's the soul's order because we have lessons to learn. Yeah, so what is natural order? Where does it come from?
Speaker 2:I don't know, I haven't thought about this very much. Okay, we want to know what you think about this, but I do think that that is the natural order, and maybe there's my own idea of the way it's supposed to be, or maybe that's just a cultural meme, that that's what we say. You're supposed to have your children. You die before them. You know you bury your parents, and that's the natural order, because the other way is hell.
Speaker 1:But I think you know, those things come from when we didn't live past 30. True, like they come from a time in life where we had really short lifespans. That's true. But now, now I'm going to say this story really fast, just because it came up on the podcast. Now, on this topic, I was reading this thing about this woman in Paris who sold her house to this guy and the deal was you pay me monthly and then eventually it's like you eventually own the home. But he died before her. She lived to like 122 and when, after he died her, his kids were paying for her to be in that place so that they would eventually own it. And it's funny it's talking about. What you're talking about right now is we don't know when the expiration date is. We, we totally don't know. He died at 77, which isn't that old, you know, and I'm sure he thought for sure this woman that lived to 122 would die before him and she just didn't. And then his heirs were paying for that property.
Speaker 2:That's really very funny. That's a very funny story. Well, I did learn that lesson. I 100% agree with you that that's not the way it often goes, sadly, and I learned that lesson pretty hard. I used to have my kids, when they were really little, take pictures with my grandparents. So my kids had three of their great-grandparents, which is pretty amazing. I used to always take pictures with them and then they outlived my own father, so that was a real smack in the face. So I learned that lesson really hard. There really is no order of things and what we expect isn't always what happens for sure.
Speaker 1:I think if you get to have the order, it's a real blessing, like I think what a blessing it is If you know your parents and your grandparents and you have children and people kind of go in the order. That is the most pleasant, potentially because we all know that we're going to go. We just don't know what order it's going to be or how Right Like there are accidents, things happen. It doesn't have to be from natural causes, there's always just life that occurs.
Speaker 1:I know that today we're talking about where's desire in the room, in ourselves, when health is the alarm that's ringing, whether in ourselves or in someone we're caring for, whether in ourselves or in someone we're caring for. And now we're talking about you know this inevitable death that happens and we don't really know the sequence. We know the sequence we desire, what would feel most comfortable when natural order is happening and how to be with all of it and still feeling into your desire. I love that you talked about making sure that you show up for your business, making sure that you handle your commitments, whether it's a podcast or something or something else. Is there anything else that comes to mind for you that you're like when I'm caring for someone else. I'm making sure these things are handled in my life.
Speaker 2:You're like when I'm caring for someone else. I'm making sure these things are handled in my life. A story that comes up for me is when my father was in the hospital. This was 2001. This was before 9-11. And I was teaching at the time and I taught in the morning and I taught in the afternoon.
Speaker 2:I had one class in the middle of the day and my assistant principal God bless his soul, he was absolutely amazing. His name was Herb and I always told him how amazing he was, because he truly was. He would cover my sixth period class so I could go during the middle of the day and visit my father in the hospital. So I would teach in the morning, go visit him and come back and teach and then go home to my little kids at home. It was really a very busy time and the gift in that was here. Here. I am still talking about it all these years later because what he did for me was absolutely gorgeous. He very easily could have said oh no, brenda, you need to teach that sixth period class. And what a beautiful gift that I received. What a beautiful, beautiful gift. And he would always say to me family comes first and I was also handling my stuff. He would always say as well, people come to me with problems all the time, but if you come to me with a solution, then I'm going to back you all the way. And so he would cover me and my students were very happy. I was able to go see my father, which meant my kids were happier and it was just easier for me overall. And so I think the hidden gifts in these moments are quite beautiful, like there's just angels everywhere who do really want to show up for us and want it to be good for us and want to help us. And the really important piece is asking for what you need and want. Like it felt like kind of a big ask to go out in the middle of the day several times a week during my work day, but I asked for it. I think a lot of people wouldn't even ask so communicating it, showing up to receive it, and then I just kept asking and at some point he was just like just tell me what you need and I'll cover it. So there's a lot of really beautiful gifts to receive and funny stories as well. You know, a lot of funny stories.
Speaker 2:It's not all doom and gloom, you know if we're in approval of what's happening. Oh, somebody's not doing well. There are some beautiful moments that come out of that and it's really important to notice those things, because grief is such a deep emotion and it's something that we all don't want to feel yet. It is a part of life, like you were saying, and when we're really in it, boy are we tapped in to something so much deeper. We are tapped into our love. There's a softness that's there because all the protections come off because we're in grief. I have found that in moments of grief, my heart is cracked open and I am available for people in life in a way that I'm not always available when I'm on a schedule, trying to make this or that appointment, talk to people. You know doing my grooving thing that I do. It's a really important piece to notice that. It's not something that we want, grief, but there's beautiful gifts inside of it. We can receive those gifts and still want the person that we're with to live. They're not separate.
Speaker 1:You can have both that when we're in grief and when we're back to the basics, we have such an opportunity to ask for help and make space for miracles. We have the opportunity to ask for help and strengthen our community and our connections with other people, with those we love and those whom love us. Strengthen our community with people that maybe there isn't love in the room, but they are more than happy and willing to be of service and do their part as part of the community at large. I love how you said it's not that desire isn't in the room, it's that it just sounds different. And it's. Yes, we're not shooting for the stars, we're really wanting to go back to the basics. And what in the basics can we enhance? Like what part of the basics you said for you right now, it's how can I show up to the best of my ability? And I also hear and since I know you, I know that you're taking really good care of yourself, and I think that's a better way than how we've been taught to just give out all of yourself and then there's nothing left and you're sort of picking up the pieces. I really, really hope that this episode landed for you, that you've been able to feel into what happens to your desire when either you're the person that's having a health challenge or you're helping somebody else that's having a health challenge and pause, reflect, ask yourself what do you need, Ask for the help if it's needed, if it's necessary, or even if it's not necessary. Just ask for whatever you need so that this time could be easier for you and you get to enjoy your loved ones to the best of your ability, that you get to enjoy your own life to the best of your ability, and I'm not going to pretend like this is easy.
Speaker 1:Brenda talked about grief. Like this is a time where there's grief, whether it's your own health or the health of someone else. When health problems occur, there is grief in the room because we have an idea we want to be strong and young forever. I know I see 70-year-olds and 80-year-olds that say I may be 80 on the timeline and I feel 20 inside. Right, we all feel like little kids inside. So taking care of ourselves so that we can be the best expression of ourselves is so important. I really hope that this episode touched you as it has me and, if you feel so, called. Please write a review on Apple Podcasts, send a snapshot, a screenshot, let me know. Bye for now.
Speaker 2:Thank you for joining us on the Desire is Medicine podcast.
Speaker 1:Desire invites us to be honest, loving and deeply intimate with ourselves and others. You can find our handles in the show notes. We'd love to hear from you.
