112 ~ Desire Check-In: Behind the Scenes

What happens when two desire coaches pause to reflect on their own relationship with desire? After three years and 111 episodes of the Desire as Medicine podcast, Brenda and Catherine open up about where desire feels alive, where it feels challenging, and how their relationship with it has evolved.

Brenda shares about her journey of building physical strength at 57 through pole dancing, inspired by a conscious choice to shift family health patterns. Catherine reflects on her uncertainty around retirement planning, revealing how some desires flow naturally while others feel overwhelming.

Together, they explore the importance of letting go of tight control and instead trusting the process of desire. Brenda captures this beautifully: "I believe everything that's happening is conspiring for me to have my desire." Obstacles become part of the journey rather than proof of failure.

They also discuss the liberation that comes from focusing on what is within their control rather than expecting others to change for their desires to be met. This awareness creates freedom, clarity, and deeper alignment with what they truly want.

Whether desire feels playful, overwhelming, or steady, this episode is an invitation to pause and ask yourself: What feels alive right now? What feels sticky? How has your relationship with desire shifted over time?

Episode Highlights
• Desire can feel alive and easy or sticky and challenging at different times
• Brenda shares her desire to build physical strength at 57 through pole dancing and other practices
• Catherine discusses her uncertainty around retirement planning as a desire that feels overwhelming
• Three seasons of desire: ignoring it, being whimsical with it, and practicing responsible desire
• Learning to trust the process instead of gripping tightly to outcomes
• Distinguishing between what is within our control versus trying to change others' behaviors
• Exploring the difference between desire and capacity: what we want versus what we can handle
• The podcast itself is an example of desire in action, evolving from casual conversation into consistent practice

We invite you to reflect on your own relationship with desire. Where are you right now? What feels alive? What feels challenging? How has your relationship with desire shifted over time?

We would love it if you could Like, Rate, Review and Share this episode. Thanks in advance for your support. You're the reason this show continues to grow. 

Chapters

• 2:15 Our Current Relationship with Desire
• 10:55 Sticky and Challenging Desires
• 22:25 How Our Relationship with Desire Changed
• 28:08 Practicing Desire Through Awareness Shifts
• 33:00 Desire in Our Coaching Practice

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:08

Welcome to Desire is Medicine. We are two very different women living a life led by desire, inviting you into our world.

Speaker 2: 0:16

I'm Brenda. I'm a devoted practitioner to being my fully expressed true self in my daily life. Motherhood relationships and my business Desire has taken me on quite a ride and every day I practice listening to and following the voice within. I'm a middle school teacher turned coach and guide of the feminine.

Speaker 1: 0:36

And I'm Catherine, devoted to living my life as the truest and hopefully the highest version of me. I don't have children, I've never been married. I've spent equal parts of my life in corporate as in some down and low shady spaces. I was the epitome of tired and wired and my path led me to explore desire. I'm a coach, guide, energy worker and a forever student.

Speaker 2: 0:58

Even after decades of inner work, we are humble beginners on the mat, still exploring, always curious. We believe that listening to and following the nudge of desire is a deep spiritual practice that helps us grow.

Speaker 1: 1:12

On the Desires Medicine podcast. We talk to each other, we interview people we know and love about the practice of desire, bringing in a very important piece that is often overlooked being responsible for our desire. Hello everyone, welcome back. Loyal listeners, family, friends. I'm here with the lovely Brenda, as usual, and so happy to have her Today.

Speaker 1: 1:41

This podcast we're sort of doing a little bit of a 360 or 363 times because we are in our third season people third season and our podcast is called Desire as Medicine. Like, how can we use the ignition of desire? How can we use that life force in our body for it to lead us into our next step and the step after that and the step after that? And I thought it would be fun and a great check-in for Brenda and I to just be with this question and invite you all to be here as well. Like, where are you in your relationship with desire right now? Like, how are you currently experiencing desire in your own life? How are you currently experiencing desire in your own life? What feels alive, easy or natural right now?

Speaker 1: 2:29

For me, definitely my desire to record this podcast feels very alive, very easy and very natural right now. I would say I still sort of get goosebumps before we record. I put some thought into what we want to record on what's alive in the field. What have I been hearing from my clients or in my group? What Brenda's hearing, what she's been hearing from her clients and in her various groups as well, always sort of trying to have our finger on the pulse of what's popping in that moment, always sort of trying to have our finger on the pulse of what's popping in that moment. What about you, brenda?

Speaker 2: 3:11

What feels alive, easy and natural for you right now, like in the realm of desire. I love this question. I love this topic. I love that we are doing a desire check-in over here. How are the desire ladies doing with their own desire? Yeah, it's a great question. I have so many desires. I have such a wide range of desires. I mean this podcast has been such a beautiful evolution of desire that has grown me so much. You know you mentioned desire as medicine, as the topic of this podcast that our desires call us to something greater, some bigger version of ourselves and we don't know why, when a desire lands in our body and this podcast has had so many gifts for me, so many gifts Just yesterday, so many gifts.

Speaker 2: 4:04

Just yesterday, somebody who I admire gave me this beautiful compliment saying that I am so consistent in my marketing she's on my email list that I'm so consistent in my you know communication with people with my list, without being annoying. That's a good distinction. I was so excited about that compliment. It touched me so deeply. It went like right into my heart because it's something that I didn't even realize I was working on with this podcast. It's something that I've been working on in my life steadiness, consistency which is something that I had in my quote old life, when I was a teacher and I had a house and I was raising my children. I had in my quote old life, when I was a teacher and I had a house and I was raising my children. I had a lot of structures in place for my life to be steady and consistent. But when I changed all of that and I don't have those things right now being an entrepreneur, not having children in the house, not working a nine to five wow, I really had to work on stability and steadiness, not only with my schedule, but with money as well, and always working on emotional regulation, and so receiving that compliment that I am so consistent was really a beautiful compliment. This podcast has helped me be steady and consistent and given me a real embodied blueprint of what that feels like in my life, because I want that feeling that I have here, that we created together and with our listeners. I want that in other areas of my life too. So this is a great teaching on desire.

Speaker 2: 5:42

You might know how to do something, or you might have a skill and you want to transfer it to another area of your life. Well, now I know what consistency feels like because we show up every week. Maybe we'll do a behind the scenes sometime of what it takes to do this podcast, but it requires a lot. It requires us to show up consistently with ourselves and each other, and I'm really proud of that. So it has grown me tremendously.

Speaker 2: 6:12

And I know it's grown me not only because do I see the results, but I felt the growing pains along the way, like all the times I didn't think I could show up or I didn't think I could record or I didn't like the way my voice sounded or I wanted to over edit myself. As the person with the editing button, I had to go through a whole phase of wanting to over edit myself or finding it confronting to hear my own voice in this way or the cadence of my speech, and I brought a lot of compassion to it and just learned to love it. So it's just grown me in so many ways.

Speaker 1: 6:49

Thank you so much for that. You have really grown so much with the edit button. I concur. I've witnessed that and yes, it's true, it can be really confronting to hear your own voice. That has happened to me too. So next up on our desire question is like what feels sticky, challenging or uncertain in the realm of desire? Like, is there any desire that feels sticky, challenging, uncertain for you right now?

Speaker 2: 7:25

for you right now. Oh, my goodness. Yes, I love that we're talking about this, because I don't want to give anyone the illusion that, because we have a podcast with this is episode 112, that we have it all figured out. Like, if you listen to the beginning of our podcast, the intro, I believe it says we're on the mat, always learning, always curious, and that is true. We live that.

Speaker 2: 7:51

So something that's hard and sticky right now is I have a desire to be more physically strong. Being perimenopausal, I turned 57 a few weeks ago I want to build strength and it's been challenging, it's been pushing all of my buttons and it's been really hard to show up for it. So I've been planking. I picked up pole dancing again. I was doing that 10 years ago and I couldn't do a lot of the tricks 10 years ago. So now here I am again, 10 years later, trying to do it, and I want to start with weights as well. It's so confronting how not strong I feel, and also I want to say I'm stronger than I think I am. It's been a lot of getting out of my own mind because I actually am quite strong, but this is a desire that has called me from the ethers. I was in Pilates one day and I got a very big download and it was kind of on the heels of what we were just talking about in the last episodes of what we inherit from our family. I got a very strong, embodied download of seeing the two paths in front of me One following the path of the women before me in my lineage who did not remain strong and ended up on medication and unwell, dealing with all the repercussions of that as they got older. And that is a path that I could go down sweating my ass off in Pilates and signing up for another round of pole dancing and sitting through the discomfort and the challenge of that, like the physical challenge, it was very clear which path I was going to take. You know, obviously I'm taking the path of building strength, but this desire just came to me. Not only was it a desire, it was a vision and a truth that I saw. I want to have vibrant well-being in my body that's my new phrase and so it means that I have to show up for myself and it's so confronting.

Speaker 2: 10:23

Catherine and listeners, if you look at my stories, sometimes on Instagram I will post stories of my attempting to pole dance, of my attempting to pole dance just lifting my legs off the ground together. I can barely do it Like. My core is just not that strong and I want to also say it's getting stronger every day. So this has been a desire that's been extremely confronting and I am showing up for myself. If I want to have the life that I really want to live and if I want to be healthy and vibrant and watch my children, have children and be there for my grandchildren and just be healthy and vibrant, I need to do this Like what I could get away with in my 20s, 30s and 40s I cannot get away with now as I hit menopause, it's just true.

Speaker 2: 11:19

So it means sticking through the uncomfortable, sticky parts and it feels hard and I pretty much cry every time I go to pole dancing. Well, it starts out crying because I internally am going oh my God, I can't do this. This is so hard. And then by the end of the class I'm doing it, or at least I'm taking the steps to do it, even if I'm being spotted. Whatever I'm doing it, I've made progress. And that feeling of oh my God, I stuck through the really hard part and I'm doing it and I really didn't think I could do this and I really really want to do it, like the internal satisfaction of that is really fulfilling.

Speaker 1: 12:08

For me. My big desire that feels sticky, challenging and uncertain is retirement. My big desire that feels sticky, challenging and uncertain is retirement. I, for various reasons, I'm not ready to retire. I'm definitely not FIRE, which is financially independent, retiring early. So potentially I'll be ready at 65. I'm a few years away from that, definitely closer to 65 than I am to 15. So let's just have that. And I don't know if I'll be able to retire in the way that I want to, and it was never so top of mind until I hit 50. And then I said wait a second. I think there's a good chance that I'm going to live past a certain age.

Speaker 1: 13:01

It's so up of mind for me that when I wake up in the morning I thank God for another day. It's both. It's like I'm thanking God for another day and then at the same time I'm like I want to make sure that I can take care of myself into my older years. It's very uncertain. I am first generation American, my parents are gone, like I haven't seen people do it before me, let's say in my own lineage. So I'm sort of figuring things out myself as I go and just putting one foot in front of the other. It's extremely uncertain. I just don't know. I'm doing the best I can with what I have and we'll see.

Speaker 1: 13:43

And it feels very different, like retiring early feels very different than the alive, easy, natural feeling I have when we're recording for the podcast. It's such a clear oh, this is how this feels and this is how that feels. This bigger goal feels so uncertain, so scary, so big, like the hugest mountain. And I also have to remind myself that this wasn't top of mind for a really long time. Actually, if I'm really honest, I don't even think that goal was there four and a half years ago when you and I started recording. Like it's a fairly recent sort of alarm, I think, like sort of recent thing. That's in my peripheral vision that I'm like hey, what's going to happen here? And I'm also really clear that having desire carve us means that we're constantly accepting where we are and feeling into what else we want and that we want more, and so that's not going to change, right and getting comfortable with that. So let me see, brenda, how would you say your relationship with desire has shifted? Oh, wow.

Speaker 2: 15:00

What a great question. I think about desire all the time. I think about desire every day. Maybe I don't want to be so bold as to say all day, every day, that would be very corny, but I really think about it a lot. I think about this podcast a lot, and then sometimes I sit and I ask myself the questions that we're asking on this podcast today what is my relationship with desire? I don't want to ever get so lost in producing this podcast that I ignore my own relationship with desire, and I don't think that I do, but it's great to pause and check in. I mean, there's so many seasons of desire. There's for me in my life.

Speaker 2: 15:47

I can think of three huge seasons, three overarching, overarching seasons. One is ignoring it or sexualizing it, like desire means sex, not really. What do you want to do in your life or what's this thing that's calling your soul right? So basically ignoring it or putting it in a box. The other one is being really whimsical with it, or hungry, ghosty, like oh, I'm going to follow every desire. I am going to eat pizza every night because that is what I desire. I'm going to fly across the country tomorrow because it's my desire. You know, there is a time I'm knocking it because it's funny, but it is a location on the map. When you start opening up to desire, you're like I need to give myself every little thing, no matter what it costs in all the ways. And then the next step which is, I think, where I am now is responsible, like being responsible with my desire, which we talk about a lot here, because it's a great spot to be in I mean, the whimsical one was really fun, but I paid a high cost for those.

Speaker 2: 16:58

But this is really focusing on what is it that I want for myself? And I'm thinking bigger and broader. Like you're talking about retirement, I'm talking about strength training, I want to own a house. These are things that are really far into the future, like things that will increase my quality of life. And they ask me to really show up for myself, no matter what. And just like that pole dancing class, like something, can seem really hard, but we stay with ourself and we get to the other side.

Speaker 2: 17:37

I was with a friend the other day and her son just started third grade and he came home from school hysterically crying, crying, his cute little eyes out, and she's holding him and hugging him and he's crying and he's going. Third grade is so hard, it's so hard. I want to go back to second grade and I really related and we talked about how hard it is to learn something new and I actually showed him the video of the babies falling over when they're learning to sit up and they keep falling over and falling over because they're learning something new and we're building muscle and skill and it's really funny to watch a compilation of babies falling over. It's adorable, but that is how it is. And he did find that funny and so did I.

Speaker 1: 18:23

I love that example of the babies falling over. That's so good and I can only imagine I want to go back to second grade. It's so fun and I really appreciate that. We're talking about the desires that we have that are so far ahead that it will take some time. It's strength building, buying a house, retiring Well, there are sort of things that have to stack on each other. It's not just one step right, it's not just learning that dance routine, it's a little bit more than that. And how would you say that desire-led living has changed. What does it mean for you today versus when you first started potentially living by desire?

Speaker 2: 19:06

I'm really good now at following the breadcrumbs and trusting and letting go of control, like really surrendering. I used to have a very strong relationship with control and perfection and I would want things to go a certain way, and maybe that's why I was more whimsical with desire at one point, because it was like, well, I want this thing, I have to have it, no matter what, and I don't feel that way anymore. That come up and you know they're not aligned or they're just not going to be followed for whatever reason, and that's the discernment that comes in and I really trust the process, like I really trust the process, and so I would say that's the biggest way that my relationship with desire has changed. And some desires just are so big that I don't know how I'm going to have them. And I felt this way before. And I know that my friend's son is going to have a good school year in third grade, even though they both were very uncertain. But I know he's going to get past it and I know he's going to have a great year, because that's exactly what happened in second grade. He cried the whole beginning of second grade and then you know he wants to go back to second grade.

Speaker 2: 20:28

So we just have to sit with ourselves and trust the process and sit with those really hard, messy, uncertain points instead of poo-pooing the desire. Here's a really big way that I've changed. I'm really willing to publicly say I have this desire and I don't know how to have it. I had too much ego in the past to really admit that, because I used to believe that I had to have it all figured out, or if I want something, I have to make it happen, right? I grew up in the 80s. We got to make this shit happen and I don't feel that way anymore. I just kind of trust the process and I'm like, oh, I have this desire for my home. Don't know where it's going to be or how I'm going to have it, but we're going to have it at some point, holding the vision.

Speaker 1: 21:21

Amen, hold that vision. I love that. I don't know if I fully remember how it was when it started for me, when I started to just feel into what is my life worth saying? What am I being pulled to? I think the biggest change for me is really understanding what's mine and what's not. Change for me is really understanding what's mine and what's not. I think that took me a little bit of time.

Speaker 1: 21:47

I can see it in my clients too, sort of like when we want other people to behave a particular way because if they just behave this way, I would be able to have what I want. It's their fault that I don't get what I want. And I would say that's the biggest change for me that I'm not so focused on what am I doing in this dynamic that makes this person behave this way. I have a much better understanding that people are who they are. We don't have any control over that, and how they are is not my business. What's my business is what do I want, and keep putting my attention on what I want. And if what I want involves that other person to do and behave differently, then I'm not really feeling into the truth of what I want. It's like a great distraction for me to be thinking about how somebody should be thinking or doing or being differently. So that's the biggest change for me.

Speaker 1: 22:49

I think that distinction has become really clear. It's sort of have really strong opinions. And in my life I would say there was a time when it was very hard for me to pull opinions apart from facts, like what is the fact and what's my opinion? My opinions felt like facts even though they were opinions. And now I'm really clear on what facts are and what opinions are. I can really pull apart a story from a fact really easily and same same with desire, like I'm able to recognize oh, what I'm looking for is for this person to behave differently in order for me to be able to have what I want.

Speaker 1: 23:23

But that's not really what desire is. We don't get to puppet master other people in behaving how we want them to behave in order for us to have what we want. That's not quite the way the lesson shows up. We have to create what we want regardless of how other people are behaving, right, like independent of that. So that leads me into the next question of like how we've been either practicing desire or making small decisions, big life choices or subtle awareness shifts. I would say those have been my subtle awareness shifts. Like facts are facts, opinions are opinions, somebody's behavior, not my lane. My lane is what do I have, what's actually within my responsibility? Like what steps can I take that are in alignment with what I want? Like what am I noticing? That sort of thing? How about you?

Speaker 2: 24:12

I interact with my desires every day. I think that's one way that I stay in alignment, and we have a lot of episodes on this. We have a couple of different toolbox on how to interact with your desires making a desire list or vision boards, or pulling desires with a friend. I do these things every day. I love that. We just did a series on knowing something versus embodying it, and this is a great thing. That I feel like I've really embodied is interacting with my desires, and I just love speaking them, putting them out into the universe, sharing them.

Speaker 2: 24:53

And a subtle shift that I've had recently is letting go For my desire for my home. I had a friend reflect to me you could just let it go, because I was talking about it a lot. I was like, oh, I want my home, I want my home, I want my home, like really making sure the universe heard me, and I'm like, oh, I can receive that comment from her that I can. I don't have to work so hard for it, I don't have to work so hard to let the universe know that I have this desire. The universe knows and I really believe that everything that's happening is conspiring for me to have my desire.

Speaker 2: 25:36

I believe that for all of us, even though the path doesn't look linear or you may be wondering, why is this happening this is not aligned with my desire. Well, sometimes you do have to take a step backwards or sideways in order to get back on your path. So, yeah, just letting go and trusting and not being so attached to I want this thing. I want this thing because then it can just be very grippy, so I've let go a little bit. That feels like an important, subtle shift that actually feels great in my body. That doesn't mean I forget about it, holding the desire but not gripping onto it, and it's dance.

Speaker 1: 26:16

That's so sexy your ability to let go. I love that. I mean, just think about how powerful that is the ability to surrender, the ability to just say I've done what I've done and I'm continuing to put one foot in front of the other and I'm continuing to do what is on my side of the street so that I can create this outcome and I don't have to grip so hard Like it's going to be fine, it's going to create itself. I believe everything that's happening is conspiring for that to be created. I mean, for that to be created is just gorgeous and I've actually felt that in you.

Speaker 1: 26:53

I don't think I could put that into words until you described it. Right now I'm like, oh yeah, I've felt that in you I wouldn't say it's specific to the house. I felt that in you I wouldn't say it's specific to the house. I have seen it with the house, but I feel like there's an overall ease in your system, like an overall letting go of any sort of grip remnants that there has been in the past which is really beautiful actually.

Speaker 2: 27:18

Thank you, Thank you.

Speaker 1: 27:31

I will receive that. That's been a longstanding desire is to let go more and be more in surrender and in flow with life. I'm grateful to be on that path, so thank you for being on this path with me. I think this is a great time for us to celebrate year three and the body of work that we've built. I will say that I feel very honored for all of our listeners. I feel very honored that I get to co-host this with you. Every time I speak to someone, every time I speak to someone maybe it's on a sales call or it's a client when I get feedback about the podcast and how it's impacted people, I am just really, really touched and honored to have the privilege to be able to talk about this with you and impact people along the way. Thank you.

Speaker 2: 28:23

Thank you so much. Receiving that fully, that beautiful surprise and reflection. I feel the same way over here that we get to pour out in this way together and create this beautiful body of work to share with people. It impacts a lot of people who message us and probably a lot of people who don't. It feels really fulfilling to take everything that we've learned and pour it out and share it and know that it's making a difference in the world. I feel really grateful to be doing that with you. So thank you again for that. One day where Catherine asked me do you want to talk about desire with me publicly? I had no idea what I was getting into, but I said yes, we set one Monday aside. One Monday we got off the and I was like let's do this again next Monday and that's it. We never stopped Such a gorgeous trajectory.

Speaker 1: 29:31

It really is, and an example, such a gorgeous example of what ignition and desire look like, what they can look like. It's a potential, because it didn't have to. It could have just ignited and burned and just dropped to the side, and it didn't. But all forms are okay, right. As far as desire is concerned, you're still getting the experience that's needed for your particular journey. So next step, I say let's talk about where desire falls in our business, and what I mean by that is where do you still see desire coming up Like not just as a theme but a framework, when you're working with your coaching clients, like in your offers? I can speak to it myself and share that I'm often frustrated directing my clients back to themselves and away from what other people want, what other people are thinking, or steering them away from their titles and identities and bringing them to talk about what do you want. Let's be really clear on what you want and make decisions from that location and let's get you out of everybody else's lane, like you don't have to be in their lanes.

Speaker 2: 30:48

Oh, my goodness, it's so true. I mean, for me, I do work with a lot of women who are mothers not not always. I've had clients who aren't mothers. I've had men clients and mostly it's exactly what you just said what is it that you want? And get out of everybody else's lane.

Speaker 2: 31:08

It's so easy to get muddled with other people or with your partner or kids or obligation, and that's the big one that I was going to say that I'm steering people towards you actually want, as opposed to what do you feel you have to do, because the story of what you feel you have to do is so loud and strong, and I just find that I'm regularly steering people away from obligation and the conditioned beliefs to true, not only desire but capacity, you know, because that's very different. Our desire for something as compared to our capacity for it is very different. And I think understanding the difference between those things is really important, because there's so much that I personally want to do or that I see my clients wanting to do, but I don't always have the capacity for it, and that could be really hard and it could build resentment and it takes a lot of acceptance to say, oh, I really want to do this thing, but I just actually can't. I don't have the time, the energy, the money, the motivation, whatever the thing is.

Speaker 1: 32:30

Yes, like really being honest with ourselves, where we fall, like, what am I willing to do, have what I want, and where am I just not willing to? Maybe not sleep, not eat, not connect. And if you're a parent, right, you're making choices, because I think our desires are, for sure, bigger than what we can hold and we have to build our capacity, especially as our goals get bigger, our dreams get bigger. We have to build our capacity to be with the bigger pieces and bigger things that are more intricate and involve more things. Increased skill. It's interesting, right, you have a bigger desire. You need usually a skill. You need to up-level your identity. You have to become the person that gets to have the thing that you want. And you're not that person yet, because if you were that person, you would have the thing you want. You don't have the thing you want yet, so that's proof that you're not that person yet. And are you willing to take the baby steps to become the person that gets to have that? Like?

Speaker 1: 33:29

We used two examples today about our desires? That will take a certain amount of time and can we stay the course? Is there enough fire in our body? Is there enough desire in our body. Can we continue to soak the flame? Enough, that has us see this all the way through and we just don't know. Right, it's presumed that the only way we won't have what we want is if we quit. And we don't know, because we're not there yet, we're not at the quit, so you just got to keep your hand on it.

Speaker 1: 33:59

And if we do get to the quit, being okay with that decision as well, right. If we do get to the location where, okay, this isn't a place I want to put my attention anymore, all right, great. Then what do? Where do I want to put my attention? And, with that said, I want to invite everyone to be with. Where are you right now in your relationship to desire? I want to let you all know that Brenda and I are so grateful for this podcast and for the opportunity to just pause and feel into where we are in desire-led living, and I love that Brenda has shared that she's reached a place of surrender, and I love that I have also reached a place of even more staying in my own lane. If you enjoyed this episode, please rate, like, share. Let us know what landed for you. Bye for now.

Speaker 2: 35:05

Thank you for joining us on the Desire is Medicine podcast.

Speaker 1: 35:09

Desire invites us to be honest, loving and deeply intimate with ourselves and others. You can find our handles in the show notes. We'd love to hear from you.